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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:06 pm |
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Tim thanks for the info, just out of curiosity do the throttle position sensors on the different throttles bodies look to be the same?(from the pics they do)
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tim80z
az supporter
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:09 pm Posts: 722 Location: Parkes NSW
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny - SOLD
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:05 pm |
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Paulw wrote: Tim thanks for the info, just out of curiosity do the throttle position sensors on the different throttles bodies look to be the same?(from the pics they do) They do look the same but I'll try to compare part numbers on the weekend to confirm. - Tim.
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CHRISABYSS
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:36 pm Posts: 5 Location: Wyong NSW
Vehicle: Suzuki JImny
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:57 pm |
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I'm about to do a M15a transplant on my 06 Jimny. It looks to be a easier transplant as the slight engine size increase with the same injectors and throttle body size would indicate that the M13 ECU shouldn't have much issue is tuning to the M15 pretty close to perfect. Even the compression ratio's on both engines is the same. The M18' s are quite rare now, and way over priced $2000 compared to around $400 to $700 for a low k M15a which are plentiful. The M13a only seems to lack the torque when driving on the freeway. So hopefully the M15 will nudge that up enough so freeway cruising is much easier at speed. Not to sure about engineers certificates either as most engineers in NSW have retired due to all of the new laws. I know of one that is in prison for passing cars that were illegal. Maybe the M15 is small enough to just require a Blue slip inspection for a engine number change... I'm not sure on what the size limitations are these days... the last time i did a upsize was fitting a 5ltr V8 blue motor into a 82 1.6 Gemini. That was 2 decades ago !!! lol .
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:23 pm |
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dougies_tx5turbo wrote: The only parts I used off the swift motor was the injectors and a bare engine. I have had trouble free motoring since I have done the conversion. I have the same fuel economics maybe a little bit more and much better response in power at low rpm, and I'm even running a stock exhaust. Me personally I'd use the injectors suited to the motor as there will be a reason for that, more likely they flow differently or set up differently however the tech people say it. Me personally the jimny ecu is at its limits handling the m15 or the m16, If I was going to do the m18 I would put a piggy back engine management system on it and get it tuned correctly. Spoke to a tuning shop in Adelaide today about a piggyback as I want to run a supercharger by mid next year, they suggested a microtech and a price of about $2500 for computer, install and tuning. (thats about $2000 more than I want to pay ) Going there on Friday morning to get a baseline measurement on the dyno and will re-do dyno run after the M15A is in. Will post results when its all done.
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atari4x4
az supporter
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:30 pm Posts: 34843 Location: East Radelayed
Vehicle: SV420+SV620 Vitara's
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:26 pm |
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IMO it would be wise to stay well away from microtech... you'll be pulling you hair out if you need after sales support.
_________________ You're just hating because you don't understand
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:36 pm |
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atari4x4 wrote: IMO it would be wise to stay well away from microtech... you'll be pulling you hair out if you need after sales support. I wish the ecu was re-tunable like my last car, I'm pretty sure it might be but can't find any info about it. Atari what do you think is a good aftermarket ecu nowdays. I have a microtech on my scorp and it is really basic but has worked pretty well. Have been told to stay clear of AEM.
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tim80z
az supporter
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:09 pm Posts: 722 Location: Parkes NSW
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny - SOLD
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:38 pm |
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Paulw wrote: I wish the ecu was re-tunable like my last car, I'm pretty sure it might be but can't find any info about it. Atari what do you think is a good aftermarket ecu nowdays. I have a microtech on my scorp and it is really basic but has worked pretty well. Have been told to stay clear of AEM. Rhinoman wrote: The M13 ECU can be reflashed, I haven't done much work on it yet but I'm going to be looking at it soon for a guy in Poland, I've got some parts coming to build a bench development ECU. - Tim.
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atari4x4
az supporter
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:30 pm Posts: 34843 Location: East Radelayed
Vehicle: SV420+SV620 Vitara's
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:39 pm |
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Haltech any day of the week, should be able to find a few tuners in SA with vast experience with it. Pretty sure there is still a car kicking around SA with this on it.
_________________ You're just hating because you don't understand
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:49 pm |
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Quote: Haltech any day of the week, should be able to find a few tuners in SA with vast experience with it. Any suggestions mate on Tuners, I familiar with a few but they are mainly the ones who do Lancer work.
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atari4x4
az supporter
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:30 pm Posts: 34843 Location: East Radelayed
Vehicle: SV420+SV620 Vitara's
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:59 pm |
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Been a while since any of my mates have messed around with tuned motors but Boostworx always got a good results & still do or Southern HiTech Dyno, although they do say if you want it tuned lean, go see Stan Keen (HiTech Dyno)
EDIT: looks like John Keen is running the show these days (son)
_________________ You're just hating because you don't understand
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Rhinoman
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:03 pm Posts: 686 Location: Brinkworth, England
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:03 pm |
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I've got an M15 ECU here to compare against the M13 but I haven't got round to opening it yet, I might try that this afternoon
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:02 am |
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^ Cool, so do you think they can be re-tuned if they are based on the same ECU?
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Rhinoman
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:03 pm Posts: 686 Location: Brinkworth, England
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:20 pm |
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They can be reflashed but you need to get in via a back door to get the unlock code. The earlier M13 uses a 68HC16 the programming language of which I'm reasonably familiar, the later ones I suspect use an Hitachi processor that may require a bit of learning.
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tim80z
az supporter
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:09 pm Posts: 722 Location: Parkes NSW
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny - SOLD
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:30 pm |
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CHRISABYSS wrote: Maybe the M15 is small enough to just require a Blue slip inspection for a engine number change... In NSW you are allowed to increase your engine size by 200cc without engineering. Your M13A is 1328cc and the M15A is 1490cc, that's only a 162cc increase so you will only need a blue slip. Your best bet would be to check with an engineer, here is the full list: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... tin_01.pdf- Tim.
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:42 pm |
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Rhinoman wrote: They can be reflashed but you need to get in via a back door to get the unlock code. The earlier M13 uses a 68HC16 the programming language of which I'm reasonably familiar, the later ones I suspect use an Hitachi processor that may require a bit of learning. I Hope its a denso processor then in theory If I can get a definition file made up I could use my Tactrix cable to have it retuned.
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Rhinoman
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:03 pm Posts: 686 Location: Brinkworth, England
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 pm |
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Denso don't make processors, it'll be a Motorola or an Hitachi. I'm not sure about the Tactrix cable, it only used to support Subarus which use a different protocol. They have been expanding the range so it may work, you would need to ask them if they would be willing to add support.
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Rhinoman
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:03 pm Posts: 686 Location: Brinkworth, England
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:28 am |
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Does look like the one on the left or the one on the right?
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CHRISABYSS
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:36 pm Posts: 5 Location: Wyong NSW
Vehicle: Suzuki JImny
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:53 pm |
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Paulw wrote: Quote: Haltech any day of the week, should be able to find a few tuners in SA with vast experience with it. Any suggestions mate on Tuners, I familiar with a few but they are mainly the ones who do Lancer work. Adaptronic have sorted a standalone which they have fitted to late Swift turbos ( i fitted a turbo to a swift in 08 with lots of stress with a piggyback system) Adaptronic are great to tune and much more accurate than most other systems.. They are in Sydney and are Australian made
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kyzermattingley
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 281 Location: brisbane
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:11 am |
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My 10cents worth,
I run an Adaptronic on my M18a turbo, a mate of mine in Brisbane (one street away) is a Adaptronic distributor/dealer, Andy who owns/developed Adaptronic also supplied a tuned map for the M18a from one they did in a swift, ran great straight away when plugged in, really happy with how's it's running, just need to get it back on the dyno and set up some cruise maps as its only tuned for power at present and is using a touch more fuel then what I would like while cruising on the highway. The new model ECU also comes with some really cool features, one being an ear phone jack which amplifs and cleans the knock noise for use when tuning
Kyzer
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:30 am |
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Rhinoman wrote: Does look like the one on the left or the one on the right? Think plug looks like the first one but might be larger
Last edited by Paulw on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:38 am |
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Quote: Adaptronic have sorted a standalone which they have fitted to late Swift turbos ( i fitted a turbo to a swift in 08 with lots of stress with a piggyback system) Adaptronic are great to tune and much more accurate than most other systems.. They are in Sydney and are Australian made Quote: My 10cents worth,
I run an Adaptronic on my M18a turbo, a mate of mine in Brisbane (one street away) is a Adaptronic distributor/dealer, Andy who owns/developed Adaptronic also supplied a tuned map for the M18a from one they did in a swift, ran great straight away when plugged in, really happy with how's it's running, just need to get it back on the dyno and set up some cruise maps as its only tuned for power at present and is using a touch more fuel then what I would like while cruising on the highway. The new model ECU also comes with some really cool features, one being an ear phone jack which amplifs and cleans the knock noise for use when tuning
Kyzer Thanks will look into Adaptronic, BTW have any of you guys with the M18A thought about honing out the stock throttle body and fitting a larger butterfly as I've noticed on some swift sites they have been doing this mod, I wouldn't do it on the M15A but it might work well for the M18A, also thinking of doing the coolant bypass mod has anyone with a M series motor done this?
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zukenutter
az supporter
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 9045 Location: Brisneyland
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny JLX
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:42 am |
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A bit of street Zuke engine mod tech. Keep it coming.
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cammac
az supporter
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:31 pm Posts: 150
Vehicle: Jimny 08'
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:19 pm |
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So considering doing a conversion on my 08 jim But as i know very little about engine mechanics, plus relatively little time to learn i was curious if i could get it done for me I live in WA so the most ideal place i emailed was suzistore
They quoted ~$4500 for a M18A conversion After reading this thread i thought that price was relatively appalling
What is a realistic estimate of what this should cost to do? for a m18 conversion And is it worth learning about the mechanics and attempting to do it myself with help of a few car knowmostofit mates?
Any tips would be great, not in a rush to get this done but defiantly on the checklist, overtaking and whatnot on country roads is a bit dangerous when your jim struggles to accellerate past ~110 haha
_________________ My Jimny
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tanshi
az supporter
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:30 pm Posts: 7719 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:23 pm |
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im assuming that includes the cost of supplying the motor? if so that doesnt sound too bad a price to me considering how many man hours are involved in an engine swap
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zukenutter
az supporter
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 9045 Location: Brisneyland
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny JLX
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:28 pm |
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Does that price include remapping the ECU to overcome the fuel issue? If so I'd say it's a fair price. If I was getting it done professionally I'd expect it to run perfectly.
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cammac
az supporter
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:31 pm Posts: 150
Vehicle: Jimny 08'
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:43 pm |
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tanshi wrote: im assuming that includes the cost of supplying the motor? if so that doesnt sound too bad a price to me considering how many man hours are involved in an engine swap yeah it inculdes the cost of supplying the motor zukenutter wrote: Does that price include remapping the ECU to overcome the fuel issue? If so I'd say it's a fair price. If I was getting it done professionally I'd expect it to run perfectly. I'd assume so. haha ok no worries, just alot more than i thought it would cost, dont think i wont be doing a conversion for a long while
_________________ My Jimny
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squibby
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:13 am Posts: 645 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: On the lookout
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:54 am |
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A) it must be one of the easiest engine swaps in all of history so $4500 sounds a bit steep B) It'll run fine on the M13 ECU so I very much doubt the garage is going to fiddle with it once they realise they can make a quick buck by doing nothing to the wiring/ECU, even if they are a quality trustworthy mechanic they aren't going to mess with something that doesn't appear to be broken C) Perhaps they are finding it hard to source an M18 hence the price.
Get the engine installed and then worry about aftermarket ECU's after if you have any of these 'fueling issues' people are talking about. My Jim ran perfect for over a year and about 20,000kms on the M13 ECU, so If it's all working correctly it runs fine.
my two cents.
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:01 pm |
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Just wondering if anybody with the M18vvt throttle has tried to modify the IAC orifice to somewhat match the size of the orifice on the M13A throttle to rectify the idle issues. (I would try using some thing non permanent then when it's about right use some of that metal putty or JB weld) See below its looks to be double+ (sorry Tim I stole your pic) By the pic as well the length of the valve is also much larger but was thinking if you block the air flow enough it might compensate for the larger valve.
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Paulw
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm Posts: 479
Vehicle: 2012 Jimny
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Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:52 am |
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Found this pic from member tslight of the M18a head intake ports with the gasket Looks to me that the ports are a match for the gasket meaning that the ports on the M18a (and possibly M16a) are larger than the M13a,M15a motors(see below) of my M13a (which turned out to be same as my M15a) Then consider that the M13a inlet manifold has a mis-match to the head when compared to this gasket I made which is matched to the M13a/M15a head then compared to this pic below you have roughly another 2mm larger step from the inlet manifold to the head port! That will mean the Jimny's with a M18a conversion will have a big port mis-match and there might be some good gains to be had doing a port match.
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zukenutter
az supporter
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 9045 Location: Brisneyland
Vehicle: 2006 Jimny JLX
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:07 am |
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Awesome info Paul
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