[atari4x4]

run the M18 injectors

[squibby]

wlin88 wrote:

thanks squibby for the input.

now I am not a mechanic niether mechanic minded ! so in short have you done something to your M13 ECU that is different to mine ? mine is an 06 model if that makes any difference ?

my mechanic did the conversion base on your guide on this thread, is there anything you can suggest me to do ?

cheers mate
once again thank you for your time

I've said it complicated ways, and I've said it simple ways already, and no-one else has disagreed yet. - TRY THE M18 INJECTORS!

That's the only difference between your '06 and my '08

(Btw your mechanic didn't read the guide very well, the first post on this thread says to use M18 injectors).

I'm hoping your engine light goes away after you try this. All the best.

[wlin88]

Sqiubby


I am using the M18 Injectors off the liana, we use the whole fuel rail and injectors off the M18 engine.

on idle the CPU is pulling back around 20-25% on the fuel trim and I think its maxing out out hence the code (what my mechanic said to me)

[squibby]

wlin88 wrote:

Sqiubby


I am using the M18 Injectors off the liana, we use the whole fuel rail and injectors off the M18 engine.

on idle the CPU is pulling back around 20-25% on the fuel trim and I think its maxing out out hence the code (what my mechanic said to me)

Sorry, It seems I'm the one who isn't reading this thread properly. I though you had both sets of injectors and thought you were running the M13 injectors still. If you are on the M18, then those are optimal in my opinion.

I didn't use the fuel rail off the M18, but I don't think that would make any difference, I suspect the rails are the same. If you are really dubious about the injectors, then it's a pretty easy job to swap the injectors over, you could probably do it yourself, then at least you can lay your mind to rest and we can learn a thing or two from you if that cures the issues. Other obvious cause of engine light after a a conversion is that you missed a plug somewhere, although I'm not sure if you'd still get that code or not.

[cbruss]

so i did the conversion last weekend on a 2001 JLX went from the m13 non VVT to the m16 non VVT its going great and everything is running fine, however after driving for about 5 mins i get a check engine light.

the car does not play up at all, has the OBDII connector, but doesnt actualy have OBDII so my reader doesnt work on this car, and there is no diagnostic plug behind the glovebox.

anyone have any ideas? i dont really want to pay the guys in the local garage 100 bucks to tell me i need an 02 sensor

its also worth mentioning that i wasnt have any issues before the swap. also that i am using the liana oil filter mounting ( dosnt actualy come near anything)

[cbruss]

i take that back guys, found the 6 pin monitor cable, i just cant see for looking. im getting 2 codes, 17 and 19, anyone know what these mean? i cant find them in any of the fault lists i have found

[Rhinoman]

19 = Engine coolant sensor
17 = knock sensor

[cbruss]

awesome, that was a big help

the engine coolant sensor was just a dirty conection in the end, but still getting code 17... is this likely to be a faulty knock sensor, am i able to swap over the one of the m13a engine?, or is my engine actualy having issues? im no mechanic so any help would be amazing

cheers heeaps

[Rhinoman]

You should be able to swap over knock sensors, I would think that its a faulty sensor or bad connection. You do need to make sure that the sensor mating face is very clean and flat and then torque up the sensor correctly. These sensors can give loads of trouble if they are not mounted right, I used to design this type of sensor and even in the lab we could have issues.

[Docka83]

wlin88 wrote:

squibby wrote:

Difference between your vehicle and Mine:-

YOUR M13 ECU is trying to keep up with a stoichiometric air/fuel map programmed into it for an M13 lump. It knows exactly how much fuel and air is going into your M18 lump (MAF/MAP) and the fact its using the standard M13 injectors it's supposed to be using, and comparing that with the 02 coming out of the exhaust once in the manifold and again in the catalytic convertor. It also receiving many other inputs such as engine speed, throttle position, temperature and probably a load of other stuff I've forgotton.

After adjusting the EGR valve, ignition timing, VVT valve, and CRUCUIALLY the Fueling to the injectors aginst the parameters designed for an M13 engine it's programmed as a minimum to throw up the error code for too rich or too lean. It's obviously going to do this because an M18 is gobbling up more air and fuel then an M13 should, and hence calling on the ECU to deliver more fuel to the injectors then it should be for an M13. (your probably falling of the stoichiometric graph and it could be reverting to 'open loop' mode whereby it'll ignore the 02 sensors and revert to a simpler basic map probably miles too rich, or miles too lean for an M18 - not good)/

MY M13 ECU has a significant difference in that it doesn't know how much fuel is going into the M18 lump because I fitted bigger injectors. The M18 calls for more fuel, but the M13 equally gives a load more fuel without knowing it because the M18 injectors are a larger diameter. The pulse going to them is the same, but more fuel comes out with each pulse. By good providence it would seem that the M13 and M18 injectors combo is luckily happy enough to compensate for the M18 requiring more fuel and M13 ECU doesn't know it. Engine light rarely comes on.

That's my take before you start messing with the sensors, I'd assume that the injectors are your problem.

thanks squibby for the input.

now I am not a mechanic niether mechanic minded ! so in short have you done something to your M13 ECU that is different to mine ? mine is an 06 model if that makes any difference ?

my mechanic did the conversion base on your guide on this thread, is there anything you can suggest me to do ?

cheers mate
once again thank you for your time

I'm running the M18 injectors and haven't had any fault codes.

[zook91]

so can you transfer a vvt m18 into a non vvt m13 jimny?
or only vvt to vvt and vice versa?

[TOA57Y]

Hey guys

Love this thread. Has given me many perspectives and ideas i hadn't thought of. Wanted to run my project idea past you guys to see what you think. M16A VVT, Jimny 5 Speed (Minus the transfer case) into a Datto 1200 ute. Now many of you straight away think "why the f&%$ for?". I love my ute to bits but summers are getting quite hot so aircon would be nice and i want a bit more stick. Yes, i could go a CA18 but many have done that and i want mine to be different. I've also had Swifts for the past 6 years (1 base model and 3 sports, 1 of the sports i still have and race) and love the M16a. I plan a full strip of the ute. Swift sport engine, ecu, wiring harness, dash, aircon and power steering system and Jimny gearbox and bell housing. I understand the 5 speed will bolt straight up to the M16 correct? My few questions are which clutch to use and whats the output of the 5 speed look like? Is it as simple as taking the tail shaft yoke off the transfer case and it goes onto the gearbox or is it going to be a pain? Any input is much appreciated. Anyone think of anything i may have missed?

[zukenutter]

You'd need a custom tail shaft. The M15A and M18A definitely bolt up to a Jimny gearbox and a Jimny clutch will also work. Nobody has swapped in a M16A yet so not sure if it will bolt up but it would be a fair bet.
What diff ratio is in the Datto?
Jimny VVT gearbox has lower ratios by about 24% compared to non VVT gearbox

[TOA57Y]

Thanks Zuke. Yeah forgot to say custom drive shaft.

Ratios shouldn't be an issue. From some research, the jimny box I'm looking at (02-05) top gear is 1:1. Top gear in the Datto is 1:1 and rpm is just above 3500 at 100km/h. Same as in a swift sport except the gearbox ratio. So my basic maths in my head tells me if the 1200 with a 1:1 top gear ratio does 3500 at 100km/h then so will the 1600 with a top gear ratio of 1:1. As long as I leave the standard diff or change the diff with the same or similar ratio. Does that make sense?

[-QIK-]

Can someone tell me if the M18 will bolt upto a G13BB gearbox? Or am I shit out of luck and will need to change gearbox as well?

[atari4x4]

you're shit out of luck, different series of motor & would require a whole loom & computer swap + other stuff i'm sure that differs + gearbox... you can do a G16b swap though.

[-QIK-]

Cool, no worries.

My parts list got a little longer, but its all good. Engine and gearbox isnt that hard to do. Loom can be changed as well....

Thanks for the info.

Near forgot. Is going upto a 1.8ltr engine in the jimny legal in QLD?

[McBane]

possibly a silly question why dont you run the ECU from the new engine? imobiliser issues?

[tim80z]

McBane wrote:

possibly a silly question why dont you run the ECU from the new engine? imobiliser issues?

As I understand there are immobiliser issues and potentially 4wd control module issues as well. You would also need to swap a whole heap of pins around, its not just a case of swapping the ECU.

Kyzermattingley used the M18 ECU for his turbo 1.8 Jimny and I think he had 4WD issues. OMalleys Jimny also used the M18 ECU and he had immobiliser issues.

- Tim.

[Docka83]

Does anyone with the M18A conversion have surging issues at light throttle? I have noticed mine is particularly bad at light throttle at 100km/h.

[squibby]

Could be a faulty TPS?

I must be really lucky with mine, It runs like a dream and no issues.

[Docka83]

Thanks Squibby will check it out, other than this that has started recently, mine has been awesome including the auto with 235's offroad in mud, auto seems to be holding up well.

[Glanza777]

Hey guys!

Thought i would mention, i am currently carrying out a non-vvt M15a conversion on my partner's Jimny (over-heated)

2 questions

1. is it really necessarily to replace to balancer on the m15 with the jimny's?

2. I will be using the throttle body and all sensors from the m15a but, still using the manifold from the jimny, could this be an issue?

[squibby]

Glanza777 wrote:

Hey guys!

Thought i would mention, i am currently carrying out a non-vvt M15a conversion on my partner's Jimny (over-heated)

2 questions

1. is it really necessarily to replace to balancer on the m15 with the jimny's?

2. I will be using the throttle body and all sensors from the m15a but, still using the manifold from the jimny, could this be an issue?

I suspect the Jimny won't idle properly on the M15 Throttle body, but Definately give it a go to see what happens. It's 5 minutes to swap the throttle body over, so always worth giving it a go.

Regarding sensors- you just got to wait and see. All the M-series sensors physically look remarkably similar (like mostly identical) and all the M18 sensors that I used work fine.

[Glanza777]

Awesome thankyou Squibby!

Have had it running with no issues what so ever! only thing is -

I was also unprepared for the oil filter setup... BUT!

i had used new VL commodore mounts as mentioned which in turn, using the 90 degree plate, the filter does not interfere with the chassis! YAY!

[datso]

squibby wrote:

zukenutter wrote:

I find the 1/4 and 1/8 mile times and speed interesting and I think shows that the top end is where the M18 starts to pull ground on the 13.
Assuming bigger tyres, I'm very much thinking that a well geared 1.3 against an un-geared 1.8 would be very similar 0-100.

Yeah I think you're right, the kick comes in for mine hardest in 3rd, 4th, 5th gears. 1st 2nd are still horribly slow, and the gearbox in the jimny doesn't like to be rushed either.

Any idea which gearbox I can use for a vvt M18a from a 2006 liana?

[kristov]

contemplating doing this soon as ive overheated my motor and the heads warped and it will be cheaper buying a new motor than fixing the current, im thinking the m15a will do me fine couple on egay for around the 400-600 mark ranging in kms but all over east, will ring couple local wreckers and get price

[godzilr]

zook91 wrote:

so can you transfer a vvt m18 into a non vvt m13 jimny?
or only vvt to vvt and vice versa?

Anyone?

Thanks

[kristov]

so is any1 running m15 conversion?

[squibby]

6odzilr wrote:

zook91 wrote:

so can you transfer a vvt m18 into a non vvt m13 jimny?
or only vvt to vvt and vice versa?

Anyone?

Thanks

DO a few searches, I think it's been discussed in detail a lot. There was a Jimny on here - O'Mileys Jimny that had non VVT to VVT conversion. Basically you can do it with ECU/Wiring Mods it's not plug and play. The M18 VVT ECU is similar enough to the M13 NON VVT ECU in appearance and pin-outs arrangement that it really tempts you to give it ago.

But the short answer is, that appearances are deceptive and it's actuallty a pain in the butt to convert.

You'll need
a) A very good understanding of what you are doing, Wiring diagrams for donor Vehicle and your Jimny
b) Be competent to re-arrange the pin-outs on the the plug couplers from the Wiring loom to ECU
c) Be competent to wire up a pair from your engine bay VVT Valve back to your ECU
d) You'll need donor ECU's Matching Keys and Immobiliser unit.
e) You'll have to re-arrange the pin-outs to the Plug coupler on the immobiliser unit.

In short, just keep it simple and find a Non-VVT if you already run a non-VVT. e.g. M16 Liana engine? or Pay a professional to do a full aftermarket ECU installation. I got quoted $2000 for this once If I remember rightly.