auszookers.com
http://auszookers.com/forum/

Small super charger
http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=33620		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Small super charger
Hi

Iv done some searching and cant seem to find much info.
So is anyone running either an AMR300 or an AMR500 supercharger on their Zook?
I know they are small but they seem to be reasonably cheap so i was thinking
about fitting one to my car to see what the performance would be like.
Any opinions anyone?

Thanks
Jake
Author:  Scrawny [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
What engine? I like the idea of superchargers better than turbos. It will take a bit of setting up to get right tho
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Have a read through this build thread. Very comprehensive.

http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=965

EDIT: Its an SC14. I think Sam Keck fitted an AMR500 to s sierra a few years back. I'll get my google on.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Thanks Fatzook
Awesome build that guy did.
I thought about going the sc14, but when i came across the amr500 it kinda made
me curious to see if it had been done.
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Thanks Fatzook
Awesome build that guy did.
I thought about going the sc14, but when i came across the amr500 it kinda made
me curious to see if it had been done.



It has been done. IMO the SC14 is too large for a 1.3L motor. The SC12 would be better.

The AMR 300 is well suited to 1L, and the AMR 500 is perfect for a 1.3L.

IMO you would be better off just fitting a G16B. Even with the blower on the G13, you will not achieve as much power as the G16B has from the factory. You would also need to sort out the fuelling and timing for the blower, and that can be really tricky with a carby. So unless you have done this before, its gonna get very messy.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Superduki on here build a EFI 1.3 tintop with a small supercharger on it... travelled 1/2 across australia & never had a drama.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Thanks Atai4x4 ill have a look around see if i can find some pics of it.

Scrawn: Iv got a g16a carbie motor with extractors, snorkel and a weber.

Fatzook: i was looking at a 1.3 a guy did overseas with a m62 seemed pretty easy, thats
what gave me the idea. Seemed that he thought that you could transfer the setup over to a 1.6.
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=92137.0
Author:  want33s [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
atari4x4 wrote:
Superduki on here build a EFI 1.3 tintop with a small supercharger on it... travelled 1/2 across australia & never had a drama.


Simon did a lot of K's in that car on the trip but he drives very gently, shit, he did 3/4 of that trip and god knows how many K's at home on a 2 pinion rear diff I threw together and fitted for him.
He said the Jimny 1.3 with the SC went well but did get hot if pushed so if I were driving it the thing would be constantly boiling.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Want33s: Thats the reason why i didnt want to go with a turbo due to the heat, but i didnt think superchargers
did the same?
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
WOW!!! M62!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

They belong on motors upto 4L in capacity!! Thats just stupid! And while I am bagging that build, the intake manifold design is terrible!! No bellmouths for smooth flow into chambers, no evenly spaced runners, and #1 is a totally different length!!!

On the positive side, he is running LPG. That is FAR easier than trying to run it on petrol with a carby or adapting EFI.

Probably best not to take too much inspiration from that build.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Fatzook: Even though it's not neat it's still pretty cool, he made it look easy.
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Fatzook: Even though it's not neat it's still pretty cool, he made it look easy.



Oh its VERY cool.

I have an Eaton MP45 supercharger for my J20 motor. It is designed to work with motors from 1.0 to 2.4L. The M62 is for 2.0 to 4.0L. Put simply, its the wrong part for the job. But they can get them cheap second hand over there, which is why he used it.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Does that mean you going to start a supercharged j20 build thread soonish?
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
here is an M90 on a 1.3 swift :roll:
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjowHtO4CbQ&feature=plcp
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Does that mean you going to start a supercharged j20 build thread soonish?



I've started designing the inlet manifold, but I will need heaps of little parts machined and laser cut first, so that won't be progressing for a little while.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
That swift sounds angry but that charger looks way to big.

What kinda car are you going to run the j20 in?
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
That swift sounds angry but that charger looks way to big.

What kinda car are you going to run the j20 in?



Sierra :wink:
Author:  jw6277 [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Thats going to be sick, im hangin to see a build thread now :)
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Thats going to be sick, im hangin to see a build thread now :)


http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9206&hilit=TSOR+shop+ute
Author:  want33s [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Want33s: Thats the reason why i didnt want to go with a turbo due to the heat, but i didnt think superchargers
did the same?


Supercharger or turbo charger both make boost by compressing the intake air.
ANY form of compressing air generates heat.
Ever used a hand held push bike tyre pump?
Author:  jw6277 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Fatzook: That's awesome, the tray looks sweet.

Want33s: Yeah i get your point, i just figured because turbos start with hot exhaust gas and
then compresses it making it hotter, whereas superchargers compress cold air to start with so i
figured that they would be the cooler of the two.
Author:  want33s [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Fatzook: That's awesome, the tray looks sweet.

Want33s: Yeah i get your point, i just figured because turbos start with hot exhaust gas and
then compresses it making it hotter, whereas superchargers compress cold air to start with so i
figured that they would be the cooler of the two.


Turbo's DON'T compress exhaust gas, they compress fresh air from the air filter.
Author:  Fatzook [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
want33s wrote:
Turbo's DON'T compress exhaust gas, they compress fresh air from the air filter.



True dat!

The escaping exhaust gas drives the impeller wheel, which draws the fresh air in and compresses it. The only way a turbo can heat the intake air is from heat soak from the exhaust side. I would imagine that the friction of the air passing through the housing would add more heat to the charge air than the housing temp would.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
jw6277 wrote:
Fatzook: That's awesome, the tray looks sweet.

Want33s: Yeah i get your point, i just figured because turbos start with hot exhaust gas and
then compresses it making it hotter, whereas superchargers compress cold air to start with so i
figured that they would be the cooler of the two.


I think you have turbos the wrong way around.

The exhaust side of the turbo doesn't do any compressing at all. The exhaust gas flow turns a turbine. It"s not compressing anything, at the other end of the shaft from the turbine is the compressor which compresses intake air, which is what heats it up.

There is very little transfer of heat from the exhaust side to the compressor side - there is a bearing assembly in between the two which is generally cooled by coolant.

Both turbochargers and superchargers heat the intake air up as they compress it.

See this photo of a turbocharger:

Image

The red side is the exhaust side and blue side is the compressor. There's a good gap between the two.

JW, it doesn't really matter how you add boost to an engine, you have to deal with the same problems - heat dissipation, fuel and timing control. These are the hard things to get right. Bolting a supercharger onto the engine is the easy bit.

Suzuki engines aren't designed for boost and are quite lightly constructed. Apparently, under ideal circumstances, they will take about 6PSI before they break. That's "ideal" circumstances though - where timing and fuelling are well controlled, and the engine stays cool. If any of these things aren't spot on, it's possible to break an engine very quickly, even at low boost.

It's also easy to look at modified road cars and apply that tech to a 4WD, but that's a bit of a problem too. A 4WD might spend long periods at high load and low speed. Road cars never do. Even on the highway, a 4WD engine is working much harder than a car of the same weight because it's less aerodynamic and the tyres take more power to push.

As a result, a forced induction engine on a 4WD has to be much more thoroughly engineered.

At the very least, if you are planning on pursuing boosting the engine you have now, you're going to need a wideband O2 sensor. These are expensive, (probably more $$ than the supercharger) but it will be the only way you can see how you're tuning is going.

Steve.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Want33s, Fatzook and Gwagonsteve, thanks for taking the time to explain it for me.
I think im gonna do some (a lot) of research on the subject before i get really serious
about going boosted, but i appreciate your help :)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
No worries.

It's been discussed before that It's not really possible to build a long-term reliable boosted sierra/vitara motor for under about $6K.

At the end of the day, a G16B has ample power for a SWB sierra. Even my LWB on 35" tyres drives nicely with a G16B and auto., and has ample power to cruise comfortably at the speed limit, laden and with two people in it. In my opinion, adding a turbo/supercharger would be a pointless and expensive hassle.

If I wanted to make a mud monster, ( I don't) I would consider running 4.1 transfer gears rather than the 6.4's I currently have and running Nitrous Oxide. (seriously) For the cost, which is minimal, you can build equivalent torque to a turbo conversion, but it's only there when you need it - to be able to pull a tall gear on a long greasy hill. The rest of the time a G16B is ample. Bear in mind though my car is very heavy by sierra standards and runs 35" tyres. In a lighter sierra, a G16B is more power than you'll need.

Considering you'd want an EFI motor before you started on forced induction for tuning/boost related reasons, I'd say drop a G16B in and then decide whether that was enough power. My bet is it is.

Steve.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
Gwagonsteve: G16b was one of my plans but they seem to be a bit hard to find and the are getting fairly expensive.
The other thing that i have been looking at lately is just basic port matching and a cam change, probably
just an isky torquer but it will probably make a decent improvement. I have a spare head that im just
going to pull apart to learn how everything works so i figured that i could do the mods to that.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
There's a reason G16B's are (relatively) expensive - they are easy to fit and make the power required with the convenience of EFI.

Sure, go crazy with playing with the Weber, cam, porting etc, but at the end of the day, you're still going to have a car that has inferior drivability and/or power to a G16B. I'm sure you will notice an improvement in power, and it will be an interesting project.

However, if you are doing ANYTHING to significantly change the fuelling/airflow of any engine, fit a wideband O2 sensor. This will be the key to tuning your car.

Steve.
Author:  jw6277 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
A G16b is on my future to do list but for now ill make the most of what i have.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small super charger
If you are 100% sure you will ultimately go to a G16B, then don't bother dropping money on your G16A. Spend money on everything else and save up for the G16B.

Dropping money on a motor you don't really want to run long term is a waste. it would be easy to spend as much money on your G16A as a drop in G16B, with none of the advantages of the G16B.

Getting the rest of the car right isn't money wasted. Ultimately power has nothing to do with capability in Victorian conditions, so for me, going to a G16B was all about EFI and getting the 4speed auto gearbox that was attached to it.

Steve
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC + 9:30 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/