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| Longer shocks http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34303 |
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| Author: | Deego [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Longer shocks |
I wanna put longer shocks on my 2inch lift and body sierra will it help improve anything. |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
What shocks do you have now? |
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| Author: | Deego [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Standard ones |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Yes it will improve wheel travel... Search for commodore/hiace shocks. PLENTY of info on this forum if you bother to read any of the existing threads. |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
YEs it will improve down travel, and possibly ride. I would recommend vn-vs wagon rear commodore shocks into the front, Hilux/Hiace(notsureexactyears) rear ones for the rear A small bump extension on the front might be needed also. A quick search will give alot of info. Damn you atari you beat me |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
I don't know why people continue to recommend this combination, the commodore shockies are way too long and the valving is incorrect for the application. |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
It's because its cheap and comes pretty close to fitting and that's pretty much it. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
You see that is the problem, they are not close to fitting, they are way too long when compressed, someone fitted a set of commodore shockies and wrote it up and everyone jumped on the bandwagen. I also assumed that they were a good replacement because lots of people have said they use them, however the first time I actually saw them in a sierra I was surprised at what a poor choice they were. |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
what can you suggest as a better replacement 2stroker, being a vitara guy I've got NFI? |
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| Author: | Chop [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
They fitted fine in my sierra, i had 30mm extended bumpstops. Never had any problems with. Used them pre and post RUF. Just make sure you get the right model for your application, there is a huge array of lengths across the decades of commonwhores. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
I have shock hoops that are set up for my longer shocks but for standard shock mounts you really need something that is not longer than 30cm compressed. Chop is probably right there are probably a few different length shockies over the different models of commodores. People used to use LJ Torana rears or HQ rears but i am not sure of the length, they may be a better option. |
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| Author: | shep [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
I have Kyb vs wagon rears in the front of my lwb and the bumpstop is for the tyres not the shocks. They work well and the only issue I have is they limit my drop by about 30mm at the shock mount |
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| Author: | sideways [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
The rear shockys out of a ST141 (83 to 87) Corona wagon are about 2" longer than standard sierra ones and will bolt into the front. |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
My dented 2nd hand commo/lux shocks were better and cheaper than anything else. The car didnt bounce like with no shocks, and they were a soft ride with a lot of travel. My mates aftermarket shocks however were shocking. Literally. Rock hard. Oversized diameter pieces of crap. |
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| Author: | sideways [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
BlueSuzy wrote: My mates aftermarket shocks however were shocking. Literally. Rock hard. Oversized diameter pieces of crap. x2 not sure why all aftermarket shocky manufacturers seem to make the bloody things rock solid. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
BlueSuzy, how long were your commodore shocks when compressed |
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| Author: | BlueSuzy [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Can't remember. Mine used to bottom out with hard bumps. I didnt extend my bumps, And at times they were still touching the housing. Must of been a very fine tolerance |
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| Author: | tanshi [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
highway star runs torana shocks. they are about an inch shorter than commonwhore i believe. i run celica in the LJ |
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| Author: | Daz7 [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
2stroker wrote: I don't know why people continue to recommend this combination, the commodore shockies are way too long and the valving is incorrect for the application. I've never used them but your comment on valving has my ears. What shocks have correct valving for a Zook?, Within our club we've had numerous vehicles over the years involved with supposed high profile suspension experts when they developed kits. From what I saw none were playing with valving. It was all off the shelf shocks and a few different custom spring combos tried before they settled on a suitable kit. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Daz7 wrote: 2stroker wrote: I don't know why people continue to recommend this combination, the commodore shockies are way too long and the valving is incorrect for the application. I've never used them but your comment on valving has my ears. What shocks have correct valving for a Zook?, Within our club we've had numerous vehicles over the years involved with supposed high profile suspension experts when they developed kits. From what I saw none were playing with valving. It was all off the shelf shocks and a few different custom spring combos tried before they settled on a suitable kit. Daz any shock designed for the suzuki should have the valving and shock dampening rates that are suitable for a suzuki, however you answer your own question with the comment in the last line of your post, there are probably many longer off the shelf shockies from other vehciles that have a suitable length and a suitable valving and dampening rate to be a direct upgrade replacement, trial and error is needed to find what best suits your application. I guess what I am getting at is that the commodore/hiace combination is just bandied about and people have assumed that some one has done their homework and come up with this combination as a good cheap safe way of upgrading your suspension, however it is a trap for many of the people with limited experience, they will not just bolt into a standard seirra and be a good safe upgrade because unless you modify your car to properly accept them then they are simply too long when compressed. Put them in a stock seirra and pedal it at speed on an undulating country road and it could end up in tears. I should say I am only speaking about the front shockies, I have not measured the hiace ones so cant comment on them, they may be perfect. |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
With 25mm bumpstop extensions I never had an issue. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
There you go mate, you kind of understand half the equasion but don't seem to understand what I am getting at, it is that kind of reasoning that confuses new people who may have little or no understanding so they just go out blindly and follow the leader who does not really know where he is going. Yes you do actually have an issue you just have not recognised thatyou do, you have reduced you wheel travel by 25mm. With a better choice of shock you will still have the same down travel but have no need for bump stop spacers that limit your up travel. If you are running bump stop spacers to stop big tyres hitting guards that is a different story, but is still a compromise. |
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| Author: | JrZook [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
2stroker wrote: With a better choice of shock you will still have the same down travel but have no need for bump stop spacers that limit your up travel. If you are running bump stop spacers to stop big tyres hitting guards that is a different story, but is still a compromise. This! Take Zook_Fans vehicle as an example. Small tires that will easily clear the guards under full compression but with the shocks (which I believe are commo/hiace) he needed BS spacers to stop them topping out. Net overall loss of potential wheel travel. I believe Boge do shocks that are reasonably priced for the sierra and I believe they are ~300mm compressed for the front and something similar to suit the rear. Seem to be softly valved also. |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
I do understand what you're getting at. The spacers were fitted for tyres and made the shocks usable in my application. The shocks are valved wrong for a Sierra. Quite stiff. But for the simplicity and kindness to my wallet I'd do it again. For crawling maximum up travel was never a concern for me. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
What are you talking about when you say "But for an all Suzuki stock setup it's fine IMO", that makes no sense at all. Firstly its not all Suzuki its commodore and hiace, secondly on stock suspension it is worse because you have little travel to start with. |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Well stock was in " ". Meaning its not stock, but some lift and tyres is all my car was in my view by comparison to my current surroundings. And by all Suzuki I mean it was zook diffs, zook springs, zook everything but the shocks  Settle down, they're cheap, they work and not everyone wants to rediscover the wheel over some slightly poor valving and being a bit too long to just whack in. They don't suit everyone but it seems they suit a fair few. |
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
They bolt in but they are too long when compressed, end of story |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
2stroker wrote: They bolt in but they are too long when compressed, end of story looks like they do a pretty good job to me  
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
They're too long if you just bolt them in with no mods. But why do you need longer shocks on a stock (no " ", I actually mean stock ) Sierra?
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| Author: | 2stroker [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Longer shocks |
Nice pic Atari4x4 but those shockies are not the commodore shockies that everyone is recommending, the ones in the pics have exposed shafts and on top of that the vehicle in the pic has RUF and extended shackles. SierraDan that is exactly right, I am not saying there is not a place for these shockies, I am saying you need modifications to make them viable. A Sierra with standard springs and tyres gains no benifit from them they actually give less travel. To give you an idea of what I mean a standard front shock off a WT sierrra is about 260mm compressed and 420mm extended, the commodore shock is about 360mm compressed and 570mm extended, if you look at the extended length then theoretically the diff can flex downward 150mm further with the commodore shock. However if you disconnect the standard shock at the bottom and flex the standrad spring with standard shackle downwards it will only flex down about 30mm - 40mm further before the spring becomes the limiting factor. So from the 150mm that you have gained you can only use 30mm - 40mm of it before the spring has exhausted its flex. But now because at 360mm the compressed length is 50mm too long (there is 310mm between bottom and top shock mount when diff is on bump stop) you must add a bump stop extension of 50mm to stop the commodore shock from bottoming out. So here we are, you have gained 30mm - 40mm down travel and lost 50mm uptravel. Obviously longer springs as in RUF and extended shackles will benifit from the commodore length shock because you can gain a lot more down flex than you loose from the 50mm bump stop extension but on standard springs and shackles there is no benifit. In fact it isn't even a status quo because although you have similar total flex you have moved the centre point of the travel so in the bush over uneven ground because the wheel can only move up a little before you are on a bumpstop the vehicle will tilt move. And that is why Zookfan is as happy as a kid in a lolly shop because we did exactly that experiment on his car with its commodore shockies and OME springs. by removing them and fitting a shock that is 300mm when compressed and taking out his 50mm bump stop he has gained a full 50mm wheel travel and has a more stable vehicle offroad because the wheel can be pushed 50mm further up before the body starts to tilt. Hope that all makes sense guys. |
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