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snorkel. .any point ??
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Author:  andrew [ Mon May 25, 2015 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  snorkel. .any point ??
Ive seen sierras with snorkels driving around. Is there any point ?
Or just to make it look good. I figure seeing as its not a diesel its useless as soon as water hits the dizzy it will be all over anyways
Author:  Jezza86 [ Mon May 25, 2015 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
while water is not good for petrol motors on the outside of the motor, its even worse on the inside (water injection excluded)
it depends where you are, and what you do with your zook.

peterols and diesels both benefit from not sucking in gut fulls of water.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon May 25, 2015 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Wow, popcorn time!

This isn't the easiest thing to answer. In truth, I think about 80% of snorkels are fitted to sierras to increase off road credibility. Same as hi lift jacks and roof lights, they are an obvious way to say to the public "I'm a 4WDer - look at all my specialised equipment!"

I also think that a small percentage of 4WDer's think that deep water is an obstacle in its own right, so like to prove how capable their car is by driving through it, regardless of whether it could be safely driven around or not. Deep water isn't an obstacle, it's what's under it that's the obstacle. if you get stuck on the obstacle under the water then the water just makes everything that much more of a pain.

I think there is a perception that any time water goes over the bonnet "the snorkel saved my motor" which is completely false.

Both 1.0 and 1.3 air inlets are in good positions for deep water fording. They are tucked in the inner guard behind the front wheel, beside the battery. This is an area that stays dry so long as the vehicle is in motion. On a stock sierra, it's about 850-900mm off the ground. That's SERIOUSLY deep standing water and the car will be pushing a huge amount of water over the bonnet at that depth. So even at over 800mm of standing water, the inlet will remain dry. Next time you do through water, when you get out, have a look at the tide mark on the side of the car. Behind the front wheels there is a low area where the water depth drops right away. suzuki (and land rover) know this and that's why they put the intake where they do.

Yes, if you are an idiot and smash backwards and forwards at high revs in deep water, it's possible to drown the motor. That's hardly the fault of the inlet. Normally, this happens when the car is stuck and the driver revs the crap out of the car to A) make cool rooster tails or B) make them think like they're doing something effective. Yes, it's the fan at high revs that will shift relatively shallow water all over the engine bay.

Is a snorkel "cheap insurance" - maybe. but there's only so much you can do to insure against stupidity. I blew up a G13 in a bog hole once. I was being stupid and had a pod filter where the battery was. With a stock filter and inlet hosing, the motor would have been fine.

Almost none of us in the vic club run snorkels. Pesonally, I run a Hi-ace filter with the inlet facing rearwards tight up under the bonnet. It's 1150mm off the ground. I have had some light spray inside the inlet, probably less than driving a with a snorkel in the rain.

Steve.
Author:  alien [ Mon May 25, 2015 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I personally prefer the look of my sierra without a snorkel on it, but i chose to get one for two reasons:

1-Added insurance on water crossings: Sure, it's not foolproof but it helps the engine not suck up water should i end up in it. I did have a few 'close calls' where my air filter got damp after going through mud/water.

2-Mitigating dust ingestion: Since fitting the snorkel with the head pointed backwards, I hardly get any dust in my air filter. Previous to that, after a days 4wding in summer i'd easily get about a tablespoon of dust out of the airbox & tapping the filter on the ground. So for me this is the main benefit.

I 100% agree with Steve - water is not an obstacle, it's just an unnecessary danger to the mechanics of the vehicle (and my dry feet). I do my very best to avoid driving in deep mud / water. It's not a challenge to drive it so why bother?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon May 25, 2015 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
TBH wet ignition isn't a huge problem. I had it happen a few times with my 1.0 and 660cc motors, but the G16B has been excellent in this regard.

The dust issue is an interesting one. The stock inlet position shouldn't see any more dust than a snorkel, head turned around or not, but a snorkel does allow the use of a donaldson pre cleaner.

It's also worth noting that the stock sierra airboxes, PCV hoses, dipstick etc all don't seal all that well. In fact, even with some care taken to ensure sealing and a very well sealed airbox, at idle, I don't think I can stall out my motor by covering the inlet - the engine can draw enough air from the PCV etc to keep it running.

As to a wet/damp filter - that's of no concern at all.

Steve.
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Mon May 25, 2015 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Fully agreed with Steve on this one. I have crossed water deeper than I felt comfortable with without one.

Being pushed off a crossing or getting water inside the car is more than I care for, and is what can happen with the intake in the stock location. I'd run one on a tourer though.
Author:  laurie [ Tue May 26, 2015 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
My last car had a 2 inch exhaust pipe snorkel with a donaldson pre cleaner.
My current car has a 2 inch exhaust pipe snorkel with a donaldson pre cleaner.
I expect my next car will be the same .
I find that a snorkel puts the inlet into cleaner air and a pre cleaner filters the air further extending the life of my air filter and saving me $ .
For dust not a fan of deep water. And if i could fit a pre cleaner under the bonnet i would be tempted to go that way .
Author:  christover1 [ Tue May 26, 2015 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Only cool people have snorkles. :)

I think the Sierra 1.3 has an automatic cold air intake, so snorkel could get bypassed in some conditions.
My 1.0 had a manual cold intake, which needed the snorkel shutting off in cold weather, to stop carb freezing.
Combination of my Vit snorkel and precleaner makes my air filter very happy.
Outback air seems much clearer in the higher position.
One theory the Moke club had was:
the air pressure/rush caused by the water crossing seemed to flood the carby more than wet the electrics.
If this was true, would not be relevant on my efi Vit anyway.
Muddy water would kill them quick, with the dizzy up front, but rivers rarely did.
My vote is not 100% essential, but I glad I have one.
Probably wouldn't bother on next car.
Author:  jdk81 [ Tue May 26, 2015 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I previously had a snorkel on my sierra.
There was a slight performance improvement, but it was noisey
The snorkel would get caught on obstacles/trees etc when wheeling
The carby freezing up sucked so much arse!
I ended up rigging up a manual warm air intake, and disconnecting the snorkel on road. I really regretted removing the warm air intake stuff etc

With lots of effort the intake and electrics can be made water resistant (adding a dizzy breather, sealing everything, and use of dielectric grease on things).
I drove some stupidly deep water, it was fun at the time.
But i'm not interested in driving/boating deep water now

If I had a tourer and EFI I may consider a snorkel, but with a donaldson head, but probably wouldnt bother TBH.

I wouldnt advise a snorkel on carby or possible single-point fuel injection in cooler regions.
Author:  pete_79 [ Tue May 26, 2015 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Gwagensteve wrote:

Both 1.0 and 1.3 air inlets are in good positions for deep water fording. They are tucked in the inner guard behind the front wheel, beside the battery. This is an area that stays dry so long as the vehicle is in motion. On a stock sierra, it's about 850-900mm off the ground. That's SERIOUSLY deep standing water and the car will be pushing a huge amount of water over the bonnet at that depth. So even at over 800mm of standing water, the inlet will remain dry. Next time you do through water, when you get out, have a look at the tide mark on the side of the car. Behind the front wheels there is a low area where the water depth drops right away. suzuki (and land rover) know this and that's why they put the intake where they do.


Looks like Suzuki forgot all of that incredible knowledge (along with a few other critical points) when they designed the Jimny.

The intake is down low, behind the headlight, right were the bow wave forms.
I feel much more comfortable doing river crossings with the snorkel on.

Red dot= standard air intake.
Yellow dot= snorkel intake.
Big difference.

Image


I'm with Marko though, being pushed off line in such a light car worries me a lot more then swamping the engine.
When ever possible I get a bigger/heavier car to do any water crossings before me, just to see how fast the water is actually moving.
The snorkel is just a bit of extra comfort factor.
Author:  christover1 [ Tue May 26, 2015 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
In that case, my next car probably will get a snorkel. :O
Author:  christover1 [ Tue May 26, 2015 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I did have a mild river crossing, that had a hole I didn't see in checking,
which I really have no excuse for not seeing.
Was glad for snorkel as bonnet went under.

Internet was crappy back then, so excuse the lack of pixels.
Author:  Jezza86 [ Tue May 26, 2015 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
christover1 wrote:
I did have a mild river crossing, that had a hole I didn't see in checking,
which I really have no excuse for not seeing.
Was glad for snorkel as bonnet went under.

Internet was crappy back then, so excuse the lack of pixels.


can anyone else smell poo?
Author:  pete_79 [ Tue May 26, 2015 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
^^ See, should have had a "friend" with a bigger car to show you the hole. :)
Author:  christover1 [ Tue May 26, 2015 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I was 3rd through, but was takin the pooch for a poo walk and didn't watch, could be dog poo you can smell :)
Author:  smiley_666 [ Sat May 30, 2015 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
pete_79 wrote:
I'm with Marko though, being pushed off line in such a light car worries me a lot more then swamping the engine.
When ever possible I get a bigger/heavier car to do any water crossings before me, just to see how fast the water is actually moving.


saw this the other day, and this thread reminded me of it 8O
https://youtu.be/3qUXRmsvSDs?t=31 (can't seem to embed with the time, so link it is)
Author:  Toy Machine [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
on the topic of snorkels. ebay run the "chinese" jimny branded kit for $100, where as safari are 3x the price. Anyone tried one of these?
Or a kit in between prices?
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
once I tore my snorkle off on tight trees I never bothered having another one.

I don't like deep water or mud so there is little point for me
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Besides ingesting water you must also remember that there is a nice little radiator chopper (engine fan) that gets mighty hungry in deep water/mud....
Author:  Angus Martin [ Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Toy Machine wrote:
on the topic of snorkels. ebay run the "chinese" jimny branded kit for $100, where as safari are 3x the price. Anyone tried one of these?
Or a kit in between prices?


Yeah those snorkels are all good. :peaceout:
Angus
Author:  madmacca [ Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Given that a lot of driving in WA is on dusty tracks and it is not feasible to space yourself sufficiently when travelling on a run with even a small group
I think having a Snorkel for its higher intake point to help reduce dust ingress is a big one for me .
but in saying that it is not in the first round of Mods I would do , maybe not even the second round .
as for Chinese cheap snorkels no thanks, I have seen and helped with the punishment you can put a Safari through .and seen cheaper import brands crack , distort and otherwise fail.
the points made about the std airbox are well made and need some thought , but if you are serious about this sort of Mod you should be looking at the whole system not just the bit on the end (the snorkel)
Author:  Angus Martin [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I (and a few mates) haven't had any problems with the cheap ebay snorkels but we have only been running them for a year or so, will see how they go, stainless might be a nice upgrade... Armsup
Author:  jdk81 [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
A steel snorkel can cause issues/damage if its fully welded etc and you lean on it or it clips a tree etc.
Having it super rigid means it can damage your A pillar/windscreen/front clip and/or snorkel head.
A little nudge or bump becomes expensive pretty quickly.

If done with a few silicone joints and few break away mounts it should be ok, but it has that hack/tough truck wannabe poser look to it and can be quite expensive too.

I've been there and done it.
Bought snorkels are a buttload easier, they aren't much more expensive, they look better, and they fail in a friendlier way.

I don't think there is a "right" answer, but a Safari snorkel with a Donaldson type head on it would be pretty close for a rig that does touring - medium tracks.
Author:  Angus Martin [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Fair enough, as I said mine is going fine.
not bad advice though
Angus
Author:  ak47 [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
Toy Machine wrote:
on the topic of snorkels. ebay run the "chinese" jimny branded kit for $100, where as safari are 3x the price. Anyone tried one of these?
Or a kit in between prices?


I have one. No complaints. When I got mine (about 3 years ago now) the template was completely wrong, really glad I paid someone who knew what they were doing to install it...
Author:  Angus Martin [ Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
ak47 wrote:
Toy Machine wrote:
on the topic of snorkels. ebay run the "chinese" jimny branded kit for $100, where as safari are 3x the price. Anyone tried one of these?
Or a kit in between prices?


I have one. No complaints. When I got mine (about 3 years ago now) the template was completely wrong, really glad I paid someone who knew what they were doing to install it...


Oh yeah my template was a bit wrong too (Sierra), nothing a round file couldn't fix.
Author:  Toy Machine [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
template news is not very comforting. I do understand the theory of pay for what you get, but if you break a chinese "jimny" label, you can replace it
twice over before paying the safari price. Mind you if I was a big time off roader, youre right, do it once, do it right and get quality.
Author:  ak47 [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
The bloke I took it to made up a new template easily enough. I was just not confident cutting into my own panel, and as such paid someone else to do it, definitely worth it for me. It may not have the word safari written on it, but works well for my purposes, and cost of parts and paying someone to install was cheaper than a known brand.
Author:  bogga [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
jdk81 wrote:
A steel snorkel can cause issues/damage if its fully welded etc and you lean on it or it clips a tree etc.
Having it super rigid means it can damage your A pillar/windscreen/front clip and/or snorkel head.
A little nudge or bump becomes expensive pretty quickly.


Yep this ⬆
Landed on my stainless snorkle and yes I would have suffered damage but not to this level I believe. Also ripped windscreen surround where it was secured.
Image
Author:  vet 180 [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: snorkel. .any point ??
I have gone through some pretty deep water with no snorkel with my sierra. To the point where water completely covered my lap (car had no carpet obviously). I was afraid of sucking in air more trough the exhaust than the intake as that can hydrolock your engine. I have sucked in water through the intake before, but the engine stalled I assume as the water went through the carby. All I did was tow it out disconnect the coil and cranked it over for about a minute, left it for 5 more and repeated the process, and reconnected the coil and slowly got it to start again.
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