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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:00 am
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:00 pm 
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I see why j20 is the direction, and i agree with steve, i certainly wouldn't consider running hilux diffs on 31s

As the j20 is 30% more torque and power, besides beefing up the driveline the only other way to gain driveline reliability will be to reduce gearing, tyre size, weight or a combination of all 3.

Work out what works reliably in your area on sierra/samurai diffs.

Then look at shaving %s of things, to make way for the % increase in power/torque.

Comparing a g16b, and going 5% less weight, 5% less tyre, 20% less gearing etc would get you into an approximate region of reliability of how itll run with your tyres, gearing and j20.

Building a cool car is cool.
But if it's unreliable, it really sucks.

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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:43 pm
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Location: Canada
Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:28 am 
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Good advice. Yes, the Hilux swap does open up a another can of worms, so to say. I'll the points you mentioned were things I was pondering. I'd like to avoid the vicious cycle of upgrades, and be driving instead of wrenching. I might as well run the Zuk axles since they are there.....and by your report, are adequate, even up to 35's. I do have Double Toughs so I'm set there.

Regarding the J20....would anyone know how much of a nose extension would be needed to fit it under the Zuk front clip? I'll try and keep the mechanical cooling setup if possible. I will measure too, but if in the meantime....if you know.....

Thanks again for all the good points. I feel I will be well prepared to do the 2.0/auto conversion soon as the snow melts and warmer weather makes its debut.

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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:00 pm
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Location: Melbourne

Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:22 am 
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I hate nose extensions. On cars with small tyres (<35") they look ugly and awkward. On cars with very big tyres, they can look subtle, but that's only because your'e so distracted by the 40" of tyre under it.

I'd say the extension would need to be circa 3" to maintain fan to radiator position, shroud etc. In my opinion, for that to look balanced, the front axle would need to come forward a similar amount, which means a large chassis extension, moving the steering box etc. This work would produce major gains in stability, tyre fitment etc if done well, but its going to involve stretching the bonnet, extending the chassis, moving spring hangers etc.

Another option is to run a rear mounted radiator. This is also a lot of troubleshooting to get right, but does allow fitment of a correctly sized radiator and fan combination to be fitted, which eliminates the trial and error. It also moves the fans out of mud and water, out of the heat of the engine bay, and out of the obstruction of winch/bumper/lights etc that are generally sitting in front of the radiator. I dislike thermo fans too, but my rear mounted SV21 camry radiator has been excellent over the many years I've run it. It has ample cooling capacity for a G16B under all circumstances. I do appreciate though that rear mounted radiators can be difficult to work with in enclosed vehicles. My car was a tray back (truck cab) so it was easy for me.

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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:43 pm
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Location: Canada
Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:59 am 
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I think I'm getting alittle ahead of myself in thinking of the project. I'll limit myself to stock axles and 31's, and keep the front clip as is. Probably run only an electric fan for cooling. I'd like to get this project done quickly, and basically sound, and not too elaborate. I want to be able to drive it within a month of starting the j20/auto swap. This will be project A.

The 2nd LWB I can tinker with, larger tires/35's, Hilux axles, and moving the axle forward, steering, rear rad possibiltly, etc. I can work on this on a much more leisurely pace. This will be project B, ....which will most likely be the that vicious cycle of continues upgrades. I won't start this until A is done and capable.

I'll only talk about project A from now........ so here I'll be focusing on a regular from mount radiator, with only an electric fan possibly. For exepediency I'll leave the front clip stock. PS steering, but I'll look for a bolt on, minimal fab approach.

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Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:17 am 
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I think I'm going to try and run the stock 2.0 radiator. I need to run the transmission lines into the rad for those cold winter days when it is -30c here. I may have to get alittle creative to do this.

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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:58 pm
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Vehicle: sj413

Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:52 am 
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I installed a j18 (same block , less height) and aw4 auto into a 413 with no lift . I had clearance issues with the selector so cut and welded an extension on to clear the shaft . The diff has said hello to the engine sump but as far as I know the shaft has not touched the trans sump .
Also not ideal , but due to class rules we had to fit it in a stock 413 , so the factory fan went and I installed a push fan on the front side . Its not road legal so not sure how I would go on the open road , but it keeps it cool for the off road work it does .
Cheers
Chris

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Location: Canada
Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:24 am 
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So I found a pic of a fellow who did a nose extension to install a Ford 2.3 L. Gives me some idea of what a possible nose extension would look like. However, I'll try just using an electric fan. Should be reliable and have adequate cooling. Perhaps a 2000cfm fan.

Image

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Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:27 am 
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Regarding the SJ410 driveshaft...

Any pics of one?
Diameter?
Is the u joint size the same as a SJ413?

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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:00 am
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Location: Ballarat, VIC

Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm 
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The u-joint is the same size, but it uses an inner circlip instead of an external.
You can mix and match, I prefer to use koyo bearings.
Even the old old koyos are often better than new toyo uni joints.

Sorry the pics suck
If I remember, or care enough Ill get some better pics

Here it is next to a standard front shaft, and rear 1.0l shaft
Image

The compressed length of the coupled shaft c to c (of the uni joints) is 630mm

The spline is 13 tooth, and approx 97mm long from start of cutting to end.

The shaft section is 595mm from c of uni to end of the shaft
The slip yoke section is approx 132mm from c of uni to end of the slip joint.

The shaft diam is mostly 24.65 mm (only accurate measurement I could give)

It steps out to 30mm for a 20mm section where it is welded onto the yoke.
Image

Here a section 25mm long, has been turned down to 20mm diam to press inside the yoke.
Image

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:19 am 
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JDK..Thank you! Wow...I know see how much slimmer the 410 driveshaft is! Very good detail on the measurements, exactly what I was looking for. I'll see what I can find here in obtaining a unit, or getting one made. Thanks again for the very helpful pics and details.

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Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:24 am 
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Currently I have the stock 3.73 gears and 4:1 transfer case with 12% reduction in high range.
I figure this should be good for all round use with the 31" tires.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:12 am 
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2800 rpm at 60 mph

EDIT:
I must apologise, I'm concerned I may have bum steered you on the gearing
You may be completely fine with what you were hoping to use.

From what I can find on the j20 vits
4.875 diff gears
Auto OD between 0.73 - 0.689
And tyres between 27" to 28".
Max torque is 2900 at 2900 rpm.
Gear calc puts 60 mph at 2950 rpm (4.875, 0.73, and 27")

Try what you have and see.
If you need more gearing, you can always change later.


Last edited by jdk81 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 am 
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Good points on gearing. I start looking for some 4.625. Yes, better to be alittle over geared versus under geared.

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:03 am 
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On the topic of Aw4 trans to Samurai transfer case....the jackshaft.

Remove married transfer case from AW4.
Do you use the original Samurai 5sp output shaft and slip it into the AW4 output shaft?
What are you using for the oil seal on the AW4 output?

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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:00 pm
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:20 am 
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Yes
Yes
Trail tough closeout bush

Steve

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Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:58 am 
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JDK,
I just noticed your edit on power output. Thanks for those details. Useful numbers they are. I'll try gearing as is then move up as you state.

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Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:40 am 
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With the 4sp auto, Trail Tough suggests ujt center to ujt center 3 3/4" (95.25mm) with transfer case instock location.
I'll be raising the t/c 1 1/2" (40mm) as suggested here, so I figure the above 95mm measurement should be good?

Also, Trail Tough says the Samurai slip yoke should be cut down to 2 3/4" (70mm) from yoke shoulder to end of jackshaft, and that there needs to be a 30 degree bevel angle on the jackshaft end that goes into the 4sp auto, so that it fit the jackshaft is properly supported. Is this what you guys are doing/
Someone told me they just cut the Samurai jackshaft with a chop saw and then used a small chain saw sharpening file to clean up the splines.
What are you guys doing for the jackshaft/

If someone pm's me their email I can forward you copy of the Trail Tough jackshaft diagram. I'm having trouble posting it.

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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:00 pm
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Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:20 am 
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I just cut 1" from the end of the slip yoke and cleaned it up.
Good to see they've corrected the machining instructions. I paid for a heap of machining of the slip yoke on their instruction which left me with a paperweight.

I'd measure for the jackshaft after everything is installed.

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Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:46 am 
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Ah, I sense some sarcasm there...I think.
I certainly appreciate your advice, and I am grateful to you for saving me from following those instructions. Thank you. I'll do as you suggest!

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Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:57 am 
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Not really- it sounds like they are correct now. They used to specify the slip yoke OD had to be machined down and internally bored, chamfered and all sorts of nonsense that resulted in it not fitting at all. I should have followed it up with them but ones too busy trying to finish the conversion at the time and had a spare slip yoke.

Their spec for jackshaft length is probably right but best to double check once everything is in. You may also need to shim the transfer mounts slightly to get the alignment right with the short jackshaft.

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Post Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:52 am 
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Well looks like things are getting complicated. I need to run the factory type rad, as I need to run the auto trans lines into the rad for winter warming. On days when it is -30c the rad is required to warm the ATF, especially on highway drives, otherwise overcooling the ATF is possible. To fit the rad looks like possibly the steering box will need to be mounted outside the frame.

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Post Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 5:09 pm 
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You're overthinking it. Run an external trans cooler and a bypass valve.

If, (and I do mean if) you still can't get the trans up to temperature, find a radiator from a small FWD auto car with an internal warmer.

Here's a left field idea of neither of those things work out - many cars run an oil cooler threaded onto the filter boss that has coolant passing through it. I bet you could run trans fluid through that to warm to trans fluid.

There's also hundreds of Samurais out there with 1.6 tracker/sidekick radiators in them - these also have a warmer in them if the donor car was auto. They can be fitted with manual or power steering boxes in place.

Steve.

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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:43 pm
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Vehicle: 90 Lwb + 89 Swb

Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:39 am 
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So this is why I need my auto tranny lines running through the radiator....need to warm up the tranny fluid and keep it warm...especially if driving when the sun is down. :lol:
With the windchill factor (cooling effect of wind added to the actual temp) being outside it feels like -40 to -50c depending on the breeze. Frostbite sets in fast on exposed skin.


Image

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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:43 pm
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:39 am 
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I've listened to the good advice here, and perhaps a 16v/aw4 swap may be a quicker, less involved undertaking than a 2.0 at this time.
After a lengthy search, I have found a good low km 16v/aw4 donor, and will start another thread for advice.
I just want something I can drive in the near future (so does wifey)!....and work on the 2.0 as a sideline as time permits.
Thanks to all who replied, and hope to hear everyone's' knowledge on the next post!

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