[vet 180]

markmo wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

But... nobody knows. I’ve never seen any dyno or even A/F data of an M18 running whatever cobbled together solution people get to “work” - it’s like they’re afraid of finding out you can’t run a 60kw ecu on a 90kw motor.

Had my m18 (with m18 injectors, intake manifold and TB with m13 exhaust) on my m13 ecu for a month now. -14% on long term fuel trim and achieving 14.5ish afr according to my AEM wide band. Open loop is where the problem is as its dumping in too much fuel and wide band shows an AFR of ~12-13. Looking to possible swap in some slightly smaller injectors shortly but ive just been able to read the fuel tables from the stock ECU so i might just be able to modify and reflash to fix the open loop afr.

Ok so open loop is normally only at WOT or when lots of load is applied. 12-13 during this time is fine. In fact it's spot on where you want it to be. You wouldn't really want it much leaner than that. 14.5 during closed loop / partial throttle and cruising sounds spot in also. I wouldn't put smaller injectors in there personally as it may result in a lean out.

Based on your info, M18 with M18 injectors with Jimny ECU is bang on perfect.

Although what you haven't mentioned is the spread throughout the RPM range. I would suspect with your set up full throttle at lower RPM's may be a little leaner while richening at higher RPMS which can create a problem as you will most likely ping at peak torque which is 4200 on the m18.

ok we are getting way off topic here, but perhaps start a separate thread and put a vid up with a second gear pull from idle to redline

[Stocky]

repost
Using the G16b from what I understand I need to weld on new engine mounts from a sierra 1.3 is that correct?

what method or measurement do you use to locate the 1.3 engine mounts? is it achieved by fitting the engine coupled to the gearbox and lining up the gearbox mount or is there a fixed measurement for it???

you will have to accept my ignorance here but did the NT come out with a 1.3ltr and a 5sp gearbox, if so can I use it?
I need the engine mounts and a 5sp gearbox and I know a vehicle that is NT but I'm not sure if its a mod or it came out as manufactured

[Gwagensteve]

1.3 NT is 5 speed and has the mounts in the right spot for a g13, but not a G16. Use the g13 transmission mount as a reference, along with the passenger side engine mount. Weld the the g13 driver’s side mount in to suit the G16 mount location (it’s 20mm further back)

Measure twice. This is easy to get wrong. My engine is 20mm offset to the left because I only measured 1.5 times not twice.

[Gwagensteve]

To clarify the g13 and G16 have the passenger side mount in the same position so you can use any 1.3 Sierra as the reference for that and the transmission mount.

[Stocky]

Thx Steve

Now that its stripped, the chassis off to the s/blaster and the underside of the floor is ok but I will blast and epoxy coat it as well...no rust in the cab thank goodness.

[Mickc]

Stocky you have a Maruti WT, it has same transfer and diffs as a WT 1.3 Sierra except for the lower gear ratios.
Ideal for 29+" tires and sand work.
If you position left engine mount as Steve suggested,(I did same) you will need to weld in 1.3 radiator mounts as well.
From memory the rear gear box mount is identical to the 5 speed box but position 15/20 mm back.
The existing mount will support the gearbox but the bolt holes will not align.
I welded a extension piece and drilled new holes.

[Stocky]

thx Mickc

When six of your mate don't turn up you have to improvise...actually it was much easier this way.

[Stocky]

The Chassis was Sandblasted, etched, epoxy undercoated and topped with a two/pack
if only they came out with a paint that was protective to salty and wet environments.

[bumstein]

Stocky wrote:

thx Mickc

When six of your mate don't turn up you have to improvise...actually it was much easier this way.

Lol!! I made do in a similar fashion recently! Really enjoying the build, keep
Up the good work

[Stocky]

Quote from Zuzuki / Michael/suggest that the "The Vitara gearbox wasn't too much work."

Question 1. Does it really require a cut and reweld to widen the tunnel or is it achievable by a gentle press and tap to massage the tunnel?

Question 2. What benefits does the Vitara box have over the Sierra 5sp... strength I presume...is it worth the effort???

"Car didn't have a body lift, so had to pump the trans tunnel out a bit - if you're careful with a big hammer, it doesn't look too butcherous - luckily Sierra panels are thin!.
Take the Vitara T/case off, & the gearbox output spline is the same as the Sierra gearbox output spline, so shorten the original jack shaft & that bit's done.
The cross member sits close to the back of the trans, so a 'Z' sort of shaped bracket picked up off a few of the bolt holes used to mount the t/case & a couple on the bottom face, then onto the Sierra (lightly modded) mount.
Gearlever ends up about a whole hole backwards & 1/2 way down the 'ramp' of the tunnel - 3mm alloy checkerplate to cover the original hole & cut a new one. Shift housing is tight in the tunnel & might touch under torque load / vehicle bounce, but had enough clearance that the engineer didn't pick on it. Where the lever sits in the car, doesn't feel odd to operate at all.
I had more issues with the intake cross over pipe - see if you can find a Jimny G engine to raid the intake manifold off, keeping the airbox on the D/S is a lot neater.
Rgs, Michael"

[Stocky]

Does the Vitara vented discs suit the stockman? because if the do I wont fully assemble the front end until I strip the vitara

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, they will bolt in. You’ll need to remove the calipers to bleed them though, that’s the only catch.

[ZUZUKI]

Answer 1. You can cut & weld the tunnel - if you are decent with a welder, this will be a neater option, but more work.
An engineer might not like the fact that it is cut & welded. They seem to be more tolerant of nicely done 'massaged' panelwork - emphasis on nicely done, which is not that hard, with a bit of skill & care.
You can beat the tunnel with a hammer - if you take your time & occasionally have a helper on the inside to provide support to the panel you are working on (prevents bounce), you would be surprised at the level of stretch & 'molding' you can do.
My own car, I cut & welded (to fit an AW4spd auto) but the last couple (manuals) I have beaten - I would beat / bash for a manual every time.

Answer 2. If the manual came with a donor Vitara, & feels in decent condition, I would use it.
Pros = stronger, no adapter plate needed, keeps it all Vitara
Cons = bigger, tunnel mods with gearlever position & side clearance, shorten jack shaft (leave it to the professionals, last one cost about $180), fab up rear crossmember mount, gearbox looks odd / is open (with a seal though) with the t/case missing.
If you got the engine from a Baleno, I'm not sure I would be bothered sourcing a Vitara box if your Sierra one was ok.

Like most mods, there are often a couple of ways to do things which come down more to personal preference than anything else.
The bigger factor might be how comfortable / capable / equipped you are with welders, hammers, money.

Rgs, Michael

[Stocky]

Thx Michael I've got the picture. welding and panel work is no issue. The vitara box is a bit notchy in first so I either rebuild it or re race the sierra 5sp. also I had the adapter plate arrive from zukparts today assuming I go with the sierra box. I've still short of a few items that I have to drive 400 odd km to retrieve such as the sierra box, flywheel and clutch. and engine mounts...im thinking of going petroworks engine mounts but the cost to here is more than the cost of the item. I'm in the US in a several weeks so I will possible bring them back with me.

[Stocky]

Well after being overseas for the last several months I’m back into it.
How much clearance should I give between the distributor and the firewall?
Is 15mm enough

[Stocky]

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[Stocky]

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[ZUZUKI]

15mm clearance is enough. Engineers usually like 10mm minimum, but the engine doesn't move backwards / forwards much, more side to side.
Having said that, if the cap does contact the fire wall & crack a lead post, that's going to be annoying.
There is a bit of room between the heaterbox & firewall - enough to push the firewall back 10mm in that area - might be worth while when you haven't got paint on.
Rgs, Michael

[Stocky]

Thx Michael
I’ve got 15mm which looks ok, I have fitted PetroWorks engine mounts which have slotted bolt holes to allow adjustments either way.

What method is used to mount a radiator... I was going to cut the ones off a 1.3L but I was told it’s easier to make the brackets...any thoughts?
And what size radiator?

The flange bolt of the headers runs about 10mm from the chassis, am I better of looking for a set of extractors to give it a little more clearance?

I plan on running the power steering out of the vitara any tricks with this ? Also hopefully I’d love to fitt the Aircon to the stockman.

[Stocky]

Do you ever feel you have to many projects or is it just me.[img]

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[ZUZUKI]

Nah, not just you, I'm sure to many of us have too many projects!.
You bought a whole Vitara?
If that radiator is ok, use that.
1.3litre Sierra brackets would need modding to suit a 1.3litrte rad anyway. The 1.0litre Maruti rad is a bit small. A Sierra 1.3litre will work fine cooling wise, but you don't have one?
The Vitara rad sits on some rubber buffer donuts in holes & uses a bolt eight side at the top.
The last couple of 1.6 conversion have been to 1.3litre cars, which is simpler, but I have used flat plates off the tubular cross member with exhaust clamps & drilled a big hole to use the Vitara buffers. Th top had some L shaped brackets off the nose panel to pick up the Vitara top holes.
Put the P/S box in first before playing with rad mountings. Use 'P' clips to mount the hoses, cable ties have been a engineering fail!

Extractors often foul the engine mount (your Petro works once might allow clearance?) & drop down further than ideal, so also need modding, but are at least easier to do so than the cast manifold. Look behind the tin heat shields for cracks in the bottom of the branches - if cracked, that will make your decision to go to extractors easier, as very hard to do a permanent weld repair & very hard to fin an un-cracked replacement.
A Ben T wedge is easiest. to sort the box to the rail.

A/C - mounting the pump is the easy bit - not sure you will be able to salvage anything else off the Vitrara to fit the Stockman.

Rgs, Michael

[Gwagensteve]

I haven’t been convinced by the fit of the vitara radiators into to sierras, particularly with power steering. The radiator needs to be offset to the left which prevents the fan fitting properly into the shroud. I’ve seen people incline them to fit, but that also makes the shroud ineffective. Having the fan fit properly to the shroud is probably more important than the size of the radiator.


The 2.0 radiator is even bigger than the 1.6 too, making it even harder.

[Stocky]

Michael yes I have a whole vitara.
I was told a Jimny extractor is the way to go so I will remove the manifold and give it a go, I believe you need to massage the area around the bell housing to give it a little extra clearance.
I’ve picked up a set of 1.3 weld on mounts and radiator brackets just in case the vitara radiator option is unsuitable.
I have the Ben T wedge as well so when I return home I will continue the mock up.
Steve thx for your input as well...as mentioned I will mock up first.

[Stocky]

I have five projects on the go but the stockman required the attention more than the others.

[Brenno]

Are the 1.3 mounts just cut off a wreck or purchased?

[Stocky]

Brenno I had them removed from a 1.3 as a ruff cut and carefully unpicked the welds

[Stocky]

Steve everything I’ve done I’ve gone through the process of mocking it up and tacking welding.

What I’ve found confirming the advice, if you fit the gearbox mount to the box and move it 20mm the forwards of the original gearbox chassis mount holes your distributor will have clearance of about or just less than 20mm to the fire wall.

Steve in your quote “Measure twice. This is easy to get wrong. My engine is 20mm offset to the left because I only measured 1.5 times not twice.
I will set up the radiator and shroud a long with the fan to centralize where the offset or central position of where the motor finally sits.

Your note says you ended up with a 20mm offset to the left accidentally soooo.... how besides the method I’ve described do you find the actual central position of the engine by referencing the inner chassis rails to the sump (I’ve never measured the sump to chassis on a standard fit so I’m not sure if it’s and equalized measurement) or is it best done matching the shroud the the fan as the best location.

Thoughts???

Gwagensteve wrote:

1.3 NT is 5 speed and has the mounts in the right spot for a g13, but not a G16. Use the g13 transmission mount as a reference, along with the passenger side engine mount. Weld the the g13 driver’s side mount in to suit the G16 mount location (it’s 20mm further back)

Measure twice. This is easy to get wrong. My engine is 20mm offset to the left because I only measured 1.5 times not twice.

[Brenno]

In my build I measured the front chassis crossmember and marked the mid point then put a mark on the lowest part of the crank pulley, then used a square to match them up and used a complicated series of ratchet straps to hold it in place.