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winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
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Author:  chris_mac [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
g'day all

i've search a lot hear and on the net, i sort of know all the pros and cons of all three recovery devices. most of the info comes from big car owners, so not as good for our light zooks.

i need a recovery device for times when i go bush solo, without no one else. i haven't use any of this mention above.

Could you give me your opinion experience wise not what you've heard?

what would you get a high lift or hand winch (electric is rather out of question now). i don't drive anything stupid when by myself and that equipment would be for the unexpected situations which haven't happened yet :). i'm not worried about hard labour to get my car out, i don't intend to winch myself up big hill without electric winch, i would just turn around and go back.

here's my short sum up

1. electric winch
i don't need strongest one (i'm not a recovery vehicle for big ones:) ) but whatever i get i would need to modify my front end. have alloy bullbar now
winch + rope + winch recovery gear thats over $1000 - no money
easy to operate, but not much use when i need a pull back
weight probably 25-45kg

2.hand winch
good ones $400 + winch recovery gear = $550-600, can use front back, sides. . how hard is it to use it? harder than high lift? you know big bog hole or some step you can't drive over
probably weights around 8-15kg

3.high lift jack
$100-200 + winching kit and can buy or make attachment for lifting wheels using rims spokes (called jack mate or sth like that) and drag chain maybe winch extension all up $300-400
all videos of winching i've seen were winching cars up some easy incline, not steps.
you can actually lift your car and that's what other two can't
i can't use alloy bullbar but can lift front with that rims attachment, have side steps and solid rear bar
weights with chains probably 20-30kg
Author:  royce [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
If you have decent lifting points the jack is useful for packing under wheels, the wheel kit is a great idea for this (or beadlocks :) ) but some times can be damn near impossible to get in a safe enough spot to lift anything.

Youll only use a handwinch once, then vow never to get stuck again :)

Look at them maxtrax things too, Chinese knock offs are starting to appear on ebay :)
Author:  laurie [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
my ebay 3500lbs electric cost less than $100 fitted (by me) about 12mths ago
i have not used it yet.
Author:  shep [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
turfer or winch. hilifts suck a lot. turfers are very hard work. winches are
great and often it is no problem to use the winch to turn a car around.
turfers are really hard work. i couldn't budge this car with a turfer, i am
missing some shoulder parts but a letrik winch would have done the job a pinch of piss.
Image
Author:  boostedbrick [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
My handwinch has saved me ALOT of times, It its an epic amount of work but in the end id choose it over getting stuck any day. You do need to use throttle in most applications, and my winch doesnt have aslong a handle as most hand winches...

This was an easy recovery with it..

Image
Author:  buzbox [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
I bought my winch onsale for $400, The only other thing I'd need to do is either buy or have made a winch mounting plate (~$100) and have it welded to the bullbar chassis mounting plates which are steel. The only other things you'd need are a couple of extra shackles, tree trunk protector and a winch extention strap which is optional.

The electric winch weighs about 35-40kgs

A hand winch or a high lift jack + chains and the rest of it would weigh about the same, but you will have to sacrifice what very little room that you already have to store it.

So really all up depending on what brand / quality you get, each option can end up costing about the same.
Author:  TheOtherLeft [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
Remember with an electric winch you have to maintain it... that means stripping it down and regreasing everything.
Author:  shep [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
TheOtherLeft wrote:
Remember with an electric winch you have to maintain it... that means stripping it down and regreasing everything.


same goes for hand winches, plus dont forget spare shear pins. oh and dont
substitute anything for a shear pin. :wink:
Author:  chris_mac [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
thanks for your replies

i guess maxtrax won't be good in rocky terrain, driving up some steps or over boulder and are hard to fit in sierra, by the look on the pictures probably are great in sand and mud.

has anyone actually used high lift as a winch?
is turfer a hand winch?
Author:  TheOtherLeft [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
chris_mac wrote:
is turfer a hand winch?


Yes, we have one in the Suzi club and they are taken on the training trips but never used even for demos.
Author:  shep [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
a turfer is a brand name. i think that they are the original hand recovery
winch, probably developed as a torture devise by Stalin
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
lol, even the know all about everything "Ferrit" aka The Super Coach, can't use a Hi-Lift on a Pootrol with a steel bar without doing panel damage...

Image

Image

I'd rather an exhaust jack (bag) & a handwinch + high lifts are a bitch to store
Author:  MacDaddy [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
There are other options to these...
I am just wondering if a block and tackle would work even better than a hand winch, i know they can lift heavy loads, but they also have alot of pulling power as well... with alot less effort... i am pretty sure that a block and tackle was an old " Bushy " trick, for getting bogged vehicles out...

Also, i am not sure if anyone else has heard of these, dont know if they are any good, but they are bolt on Wheel Winches, it bolts on the wheel studs, and uses engine power...
This website shows the Wheel Winch -
http://www.bushwinch.com.au/
However, the Wheel Winch kit starts from $735...
But the wheel winch itself, is $280...
Author:  ajsr [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
MacBear wrote:
There are other options to these...
I am just wondering if a block and tackle would work even better than a hand winch, i know they can lift heavy loads, but they also have alot of pulling power as well... with alot less effort... i am pretty sure that a block and tackle was an old " Bushy " trick, for getting bogged vehicles out...

Also, i am not sure if anyone else has heard of these, dont know if they are any good, but they are bolt on Wheel Winches, it bolts on the wheel studs, and uses engine power...
This website shows the Wheel Winch -
http://www.bushwinch.com.au/
However, the Wheel Winch kit starts from $735...
But the wheel winch itself, is $280...


i'd like to see you bolt a wheel winch on when in a foot deep rut or bogged to the chassis.

I have a high lift in my daily 4x4 ute every day , but I NEVER use it to winch as that would have to be the most fucked idea on the face of the planet. go try it some day its just a bullshit idea, pull 4" and setup all over again
I use the high lift for machinery maintance in paddocks where every other jack sinks and for pressing piovt pins or pulling them out.

but high lifts require MORE maintaince than a cheap low mount as they seize up in all the pin areas, they are just plain dangerous if not working properly . if your lowmount doesnt work you just stuck not dead
Author:  steve [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
I've always had a highliftjack and reckon they're awesome. I've never tried winching with it though.

Get a highlift for lifting and an electric winch for winching :)

hand winches are only used for club demonstrations because they don't know else to do with it :lol:
Author:  want33s [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
AJSR and Steve have pretty much summed it up.
Hi-lift is a jack and all it is good for is jacking up a car EG: to change a tyre.

Electric winch of suitable size will get you out of just about any predicament.
My 9500Lb is over 4 years old and has been abused the whole time. Dunked in allsorts of shitty water and mud and never cleaned out... Still works fine.. Awesome for $400.

Tirfor's and come-alongs and just plain hard work and only ever used by tightasses who won't buy electric or showoffs.

If I could only have one of the three it'd be the electric for sure.
I've winched my car partway up a tree to change a flat, I've also winched from upside down to back on wheels with the help of snatch blocks.
Author:  zuk_244 [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
Block and tackle are a pain in the arse 2. ive used one out of desperation, because they are made to run vertical when use use them to winch out the chain gets jammed up all the time, and it ended up full of mud to.

Electric would be the way id go. Its always there so you dont get the "F$#@ why did i take the hand winch out to save room!!" scenario.

I dont know how you would go with the stock alternator tho.
Author:  shep [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
zuk_244 wrote:
Block and tackle are a pain in the arse 2. ive used one out of desperation, because they are made to run vertical when use use them to winch out the chain gets jammed up all the time, and it ended up full of mud to.

Electric would be the way id go. Its always there so you dont get the "F$#@ why did i take the hand winch out to save room!!" scenario.

I dont know how you would go with the stock alternator tho.



instead ya get the ffaaaarrrrrkkkk why did i leave the winch controller behind :lol: :oops:
Author:  want33s [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
zuk_244 wrote:
Electric would be the way id go. .......................I dont know how you would go with the stock alternator tho.
LARGE battery is needed or ideally a 2ND LARGE battery so winch gets the 200-400A it needs. Alt is only there to recharge the battery/ies.
Falcon 110A alt upgrade is easy.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
chris the club has a hand winch i used it to pull pete's car up out of sawpit with one of his 36 off the bead draging up the rut .FUCK IT WAS HARD WORK! glade he got a high mount for tuff truck
.just go buy a high speed tiger 11 there like 28 kg
Author:  chris_mac [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
thanks for all your replies, you talked me out of the hand winch and high lift as a winch.
maybe i get high lift for lifting if i find an easy way to store it inside sierra, but that task might be as hard as using it as a winch.

i will wait, once i get money and time, i'll do it properly and buy electric winch with dyneema rope. i ditch my rocky road RUF and do chassis extension, proper mounts for the winch plate and bullbar modify or change my alloy bullbar.

for now i'll maybe get proper long handle shovel instead of my fold style one:)
but where to store it?
Author:  royce [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
chris_mac wrote:
maybe i get high lift for lifting if i find an easy way to store it inside sierra,?


put the spare inside, bolt the hilift to the studs, the holes line up :)
then strap the shovel to teh jack :)
Author:  chris_mac [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
royce wrote:
chris_mac wrote:
maybe i get high lift for lifting if i find an easy way to store it inside sierra,?


put the spare inside, bolt the hilift to the studs, the holes line up :)
then strap the shovel to teh jack :)


i was planning to bolt in that spot 20l jerry can holder. i have spare on the left side on swing away carrier (counter balance of sierra lean:) ) jerry can holder would fit nice there but only lying on its longer side instead of normal standing position.
Author:  royce [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
you might be able to make a mount up off the carrier then?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
Hilift jacks suck.

They are only a safe means of lifting the vehicle if the axle is strapped to the chassis to prevent it drooping. Under those circumstances, they are quite effective - but picking up the body until the suspension fully droops before the wheel comes off the ground is daft.

I have one in the shed. It's years since I've taken it on a trip and it's never, ever been used for anything on a trip IIRC.

Get a hand winch.

I had a 1980's Brano, which was a copy of an early Tirfor. I now have a Magnum(?) (ARB supplied) Which is a better copy of a current model Tirfor. It's very useful and surprisingly light.


I also have 20m of plasma rope with eyes each end and a couple of snatch blocks. very, very useful for slingshot recoveries (i.e pulling a car forwards from behind) and pulling cars around corners. Works great in tight tracks where conventional recoveries don't work.

Steve.

PS The real message though is don't go offroad by yourself. More cars and people = more recovery options.
Author:  chris_mac [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
royce wrote:
you might be able to make a mount up off the carrier then?


yeah i might be able to do it, but i would need to do some work on it. nothing's ever straight bolt on:)
shit, i thought i've finished modifying my car.
Author:  steve [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
Gwagensteve wrote:
Hilift jacks suck.

They are only a safe means of lifting the vehicle if the axle is strapped to the chassis to prevent it drooping. Under those circumstances, they are quite effective - but picking up the body until the suspension fully droops before the wheel comes off the ground is daft.


but the problem there is only in how you're using it.

guns and highlift jacks don't kill people, people kill people :D
Author:  chris_mac [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
Gwagensteve wrote:
Hilift jacks suck.

They are only a safe means of lifting the vehicle if the axle is strapped to the chassis to prevent it drooping. Under those circumstances, they are quite effective - but picking up the body until the suspension fully droops before the wheel comes off the ground is daft.

I have one in the shed. It's years since I've taken it on a trip and it's never, ever been used for anything on a trip IIRC.

Get a hand winch.

I had a 1980's Brano, which was a copy of an early Tirfor. I now have a Magnum(?) (ARB supplied) Which is a better copy of a current model Tirfor. It's very useful and surprisingly light.


I also have 20m of plasma rope with eyes each end and a couple of snatch blocks. very, very useful for slingshot recoveries (i.e pulling a car forwards from behind) and pulling cars around corners. Works great in tight tracks where conventional recoveries don't work.

Steve.

PS The real message though is don't go offroad by yourself. More cars and people = more recovery options.


i thought about plasma rope, or just hand winch with snatch block, but i have only one REAL recovery point at the front (passenger side, drivers side has steering box - hard to bolt a proper plate)

CAN I USE front pipe cross member very close to steering gearbox as a recovery point? I DID slide inside and got welded another pipe so it's way stronger than standard.

IF i get a high lift jack i will get a wheel/rim kit also
and i do agree that it's wrong, stupid use of equipment that injure or kills people. i do take care how i use equipment let it be hammer or 34T excavator:) , so safety issues are not my concern.
Author:  royce [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
I fail to see how lifting a rim to pack some rocks, branches, coily owner etc under it to get clearance or a bit more traction can be considered a bad idea.

You get a buggy stuck in rocks you have to assit it out, you cant jsut winch it it wont move
Author:  chris_mac [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winch, hand winch or high lift jack???????????
royce wrote:
I fail to see how lifting a rim to pack some rocks, branches, coily owner etc under it to get clearance or a bit more traction can be considered a bad idea.

You get a buggy stuck in rocks you have to assit it out, you cant jsut winch it it wont move


ok Royce, i see your point, so if i stuck deep in between rocks than winch might break something instead getting me out, hence idea of lifting car first. more things to think about.
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