auszookers.com :: View topic - 1.6 block with 1.3 head

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? YES if you use an 8V head.
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? Neither... See Dmac's build.. A hybrid must be made.
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) Either, take your pick.
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) Yep.
What timing sprokets do i use? 1.3
What head gaskit do i use? 1.3

if anyone can see something i've missed lemme know

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. Was hoping to build a lowish compression bottom end to suit a turbo

cheers

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v head
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt
What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket
What head gaskit do i use? g13a

Umm have to correct things here.

31zook wrote:

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v block
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt
What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket
What head gaskit do i use? g13a

you will need g16a water pump (neither sierra or swift will fit)
you will need vitara multi rib pulley
you need the timing tensioner bracket with the dongle on it. Hard to exlain, its off the g16a's.

Change the crank timing pulley from 1.3 to the 1.6, when using 1.6 head. You then need the timing belt for a g16a (square lugs I believe).
You reuse the sierra steel alt bracket

you will also need a length of rubber hose - to lengthen the piece between the water pipe to underside of intake manifold.

I did this mod in January - lazy write up is there
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=18350

The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

mnemonix wrote:

The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

Which is exactly what Jas said, before he was corrected...

Just throwing this out there, is there a difference in the bore dia for g13 and g16 head gaskets?

The bore is of the 1.3 and 1.6 blocks is 74mm and 75mm respectively. I would have thought the gasket bore sizes would be different too, and consequently would go with a g16 head gasket.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639274

cheers james, is 8.9 low enuff for a SC/turbo?

31zook wrote:

I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

JrZook wrote:

31zook wrote:

I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

Good call.

Author:	31zook [ Sat May 21, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	1.6 block with 1.3 head
hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month..... I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) What timing sprokets do i use? What head gaskit do i use? if anyone can see something i've missed lemme know reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. Was hoping to build a lowish compression bottom end to suit a turbo cheers

Author:	BlueSuzy [ Sun May 22, 2011 3:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
zooker/Geoff had a 1.6 carb block, 16v pistons, 16v efi head and stock wiring in his green lwb

Author:	31zook [ Sun May 22, 2011 4:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
so the pistons will swap between each other it seems.....

Author:	BlueSuzy [ Sun May 22, 2011 6:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
He would of ran the pistons to clear the valves

Author:	want33s [ Sun May 22, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
31zook wrote: hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month..... I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? YES if you use an 8V head. Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? Neither... See Dmac's build.. A hybrid must be made. Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) Either, take your pick. What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) Yep. What timing sprokets do i use? 1.3 What head gaskit do i use? 1.3 if anyone can see something i've missed lemme know reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. Was hoping to build a lowish compression bottom end to suit a turbo cheers

auszookers.com http://auszookers.com/forum/

1.6 block with 1.3 head http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22152	Page 1 of 1

Author:	31zook [ Sun May 22, 2011 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
jas your a champ, thanks, ill start working on parts

Author:	jdk81 [ Tue May 31, 2011 2:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
Umm have to correct things here. 31zook wrote: hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month..... I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v head Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket What head gaskit do i use? g13a you will need g16a water pump (neither sierra or swift will fit) you will need vitara multi rib pulley you need the timing tensioner bracket with the dongle on it. Hard to exlain, its off the g16a's. Change the crank timing pulley from 1.3 to the 1.6, when using 1.6 head. You then need the timing belt for a g16a (square lugs I believe). You reuse the sierra steel alt bracket you will also need a length of rubber hose - to lengthen the piece between the water pipe to underside of intake manifold. I did this mod in January - lazy write up is there http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=18350

Author:	Ben_Sierra [ Tue May 31, 2011 2:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
jdk81 wrote: Umm have to correct things here. 31zook wrote: hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month..... I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v block Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket What head gaskit do i use? g13a you will need g16a water pump (neither sierra or swift will fit) you will need vitara multi rib pulley you need the timing tensioner bracket with the dongle on it. Hard to exlain, its off the g16a's. Change the crank timing pulley from 1.3 to the 1.6, when using 1.6 head. You then need the timing belt for a g16a (square lugs I believe). You reuse the sierra steel alt bracket you will also need a length of rubber hose - to lengthen the piece between the water pipe to underside of intake manifold. I did this mod in January - lazy write up is there http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=18350 Um, if the 16v piston fit an 8v block, how to 8v pistons not fit a 16v block? Either they are the same size or they aren't...

Author:	mnemonix [ Tue May 31, 2011 2:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

Author:	Ben_Sierra [ Tue May 31, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
mnemonix wrote: The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head. Which is exactly what Jas said, before he was corrected...

Author:	Damo [ Tue May 31, 2011 3:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
Just throwing this out there, is there a difference in the bore dia for g13 and g16 head gaskets? The bore is of the 1.3 and 1.6 blocks is 74mm and 75mm respectively. I would have thought the gasket bore sizes would be different too, and consequently would go with a g16 head gasket.

Author:	SierraDan [ Tue May 31, 2011 3:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639274

Author:	jdk81 [ Tue May 31, 2011 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
Ben_Sierra wrote: mnemonix wrote: The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head. Which is exactly what Jas said, before he was corrected... Yeah I didnt explain that properly, wasnt correcting it. I was moreso correcting the other information.

Author:	oozuk [ Tue May 31, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
Damo wrote: Just throwing this out there, is there a difference in the bore dia for g13 and g16 head gaskets? The bore is of the 1.3 and 1.6 blocks is 74mm and 75mm respectively. I would have thought the gasket bore sizes would be different too, and consequently would go with a g16 head gasket. It's accually 74.5mm for G13 and 75 for G16 I'm pretty sure that's STD spec bore sizes

Author:	jdk81 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
More information End Results If you use a 8v head, and 16v pistons, no matter which combination you are using, it will reduce the compression ratio. 1.6 with 8v pistons + 1.3 8v head = comp ratio of 8.9 1.6 with 16v pistons + 1.3 8v head = comp ratio of 8.43 (need to machine 0.83mm to get a CR of 8.9 or leave it and boost it). This was done using the equation CR =( (pi()/4)sb^2 + V)/V Where CR = comp ratio. s = stroke, b = bore, and V = Volume compressed. And the following data was used and created. Found some online, and calculated results confirmed the volumes provided to an acceptable level. g13a Vc = 41.1 cc Bore = 7.4cm Stroke =7.55cm CR = 8.9 Cyl head volumes = 32.2 (volume of air between piston and cyl head) 41.1-32.2 = 8.9cc g13b Vc= 38.2 cc bore = 7.4 cm stroke = 7.55 cm CR = 9.5 Cyl head volumes = 25.5 (volume of air between piston and cyl head) 38.2-25.5 = 12.7cc g16a Vc = 50.33 cc bore = 7.5 cm stroke = 9cm CR = 8.9 Cyl head volumes = 32.2 (volume of air between piston and cyl head) 50.33-32.2 = 18.13cc g16b Vc = 46.78 cc bore = 7.5 cm stroke = 9cm CR = 9.5 Cyl head volumes = 25.5 (volume of air between piston and cyl head) 46.78-25.5 = 21.28cc

Author:	jdk81 [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
Some SC info for peoples i.e. Josh *Don't rely on any of this information. Use your better judgement, because if you follow any of this information and your sht fcks up... too bad. It is not my problem* Please note: This is entirely based on theory, looking up specs and doing calcs. If you have actual experience, please share. If your mum's brother's uncle's sister's cousin's sister's step son's mom had a fully sick SC and it went tits.. go fck yourself, I dont wanna know. Summary - AMR500 is probably most suited to 5 psi in the 1.6 sierra application, considering efficiency and low rev range boost. The negative aspect of this is that at high engine rpms, the SC wont be working very efficiently. So get yourself a small intercooler. Pulley size for AMR500 is to be (Crank pulley diam)/2.144 1st step determine volumetric flow rate of 1.6 engine* (Engine Litres/min @ 0 Psi ) Engine capacity x maximum engine Rpm. E.g. 1.6 litres x 6,500 rpm = 10,400 litres/minute. This is divided by two because it is a four stroke. Thus the engine requires 10,400/2 = 5,200 litres/min @ 0psi boost Second step, find the boost ratio Add the boost pressure desired (5 Psi) for the engine to 14.7 Psi (atmospheric pressure). (5 psi boost desired +14.7 =19.7 psi) Divide this answer by 14.7 and this gives the boost pressure ratio. (19.7/14.7=1.34) This is the boost pressure ratio above atmospheric pressure. Third step, Free air requirements @ desired boost Multiply the boost ratio by the litres/minute obtained for 0 Psi and you get the actual air requirements in Litres/min for the engine at that boost. 5200 litres/min X 1.34 = 6968 litres/min for 5Psi boost. Some supercharger info Eaton m45 = 0.75 l/rev Safe operation rpm 14,000 rpm Max rpm 16,000 rpm 21cm L, 16 cm W, 12.5 cm H AMR500 = 0.5L/rev Safe operating rpm max continuous is 16,000rpm Max rpm 18,000 rpm 17cm L, 18cm W, 13cm H SC12 = 1.2L/rev Safe operating rpm max continuous rpm 12,000 rpm Max rpm 14,000 27cm L, 21cm W and 15cm H SC14 = 1.42 L/rev Safe operating max continuous rpm 10,000 rpm Max rpm 13,000 rpm 31cm L, 21cm W and 15cm H Fourth step, determine supercharger rotor speed and check rpm within safe operating ranges To determine rotor speed divide the desired air flow by the swept volume of the supercharger. Desired air flow = 6968 L/min AMR500 = 6968/.5 = 13936 rpm. M45 6968/.75 = 9291 rpm Note: SC12 6968/1.2 = 5807 rpm SC14 6968/1.42 = 4907 rpm Fifth step, determine rev ratios and work out your required pulley size Rev ratios (SC revs per 1 crank rev) AMR500 = 13936/6500 = 2.144 M45 = 9291/6500 = 1.43 SC12 = 5807/6500 = 0.893 SC14 = 4907/6500 = 0.755 Sixth step, determine the more realistic performance requirements SC load at 4500 rpm more realistic rpm range AMR500 = 2.144 4500=9648 M45 = 1.434500 = 6435 SC12 = 0.893 4500 = 4019 SC14 = 0.7554500 = 3398 Eaton m45 will be within max efficiency for most of our realistic rev range, however the minimum is 4000 rpm (so under 3000 rpm will be useless). AMR500 is a little high at 4500 rpm (eng), and may generate some excess heat. However the boost will be more efficient lower in the rev range, and far suited to offroad requirements. To cope with the extra heat, linvest in an intercooler.

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Author:	jdk81 [ Tue May 31, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
SierraDan wrote: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639274 Great link btw... just wish he finished it

Author:	31zook [ Tue May 31, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
jdk81, does what your saying work with a 1.3 head? or did you do the write up for a 1.6 8v head?

Author:	jdk81 [ Tue May 31, 2011 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
It is the g13 head on a g16 block.

Author:	31zook [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
thanks

Author:	31zook [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
cheers james, is 8.9 low enuff for a SC/turbo?

Author:	jdk81 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
I couldn't tell you to be honest. The general hearsay is that under 7 psi is fine on stock internals and stock comp ratio. Perhaps the swift forums will have better info. Theres only a handful on this forum that run SC/turbos.

Author:	JrZook [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
31zook wrote: cheers james, is 8.9 low enuff for a SC/turbo? Yep

Author:	31zook [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
cool, i might start looking for a SC

Author:	JrZook [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
31zook wrote: reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

Author:	jdk81 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
JrZook wrote: 31zook wrote: reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start? Good call.

Author:	31zook [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1.6 block with 1.3 head
jdk81 wrote: JrZook wrote: 31zook wrote: reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start? Good call. hmm, layton is the only other 1.3/1.6 tbi combo that i know works and his is an 8V..... if you have any ideas on how i can better my cold start then sure i would love to hear em, i was pretty sure it was just how it's set..... and yes, my cold start is the only crap bit, when she is reading off of the 02 sensor it's puring at 800rpm.....