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Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
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Author:  masterA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
Hi guys,

Did a search and nothing came up so thought id post and see if anyone can help me out of point me in the right direction.

As most of you know, the sierra accelerator is lower than the brake/clutch pedals which makes it near impossible to heal and toe.

I love the heal/toe especially on the hills or when downshifting through the gears not to unsettle the car (especially in corners)

I was wondering if anyone has raised the accelerator pedal (or sunk the brake pedal) to make them even?!

I thought about heating the brake pedal and bending it but didn't think that was a smart idea as it could fracture the metal and could break leaving me without brakes down the track.

Ideas/suggestions?!
Author:  Scrawny [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
Probably easier to raise the accelerator pedal. Or maybe a bit of both.

Heal and toe driving isn't really necessary for a Sierra tho.....
Author:  shep [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
why bother? i dont understand why people would push a sierra on the road.
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
A 4wd Suzuki Sierra is not a Racecar.
Author:  alex [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
BlueSuzy wrote:
A 4wd Suzuki Sierra is not a Racecar.
but they can be rallyed
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
Ive never had any issues with doing this in my Zook.

but i do have large feet
Author:  mongrelzook [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
How u trying heal or toe on throttle. Sometimes swapping makes it easier for different height pedals
Author:  royce [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
No trouble with any car ive owned as well, I do it in the vit all the time cause 2nd gear syncro is stuffed :)
Author:  masterA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
There are numerous reasons but one of the main ones is because i like the driving technique. I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

I hear what some of you are saying but i don't mean to race it and it will never be a race/rally car.
I've seen alot of pics and videos of sierras on strange and crazy angles and im sure most of you that know the driving technique would agree/prefer to heal and toe to get the car moving slowly.
You could let the clutch out and get it to the point where it starts to grip/move forward, but by the time you let go of the brake and apply the accelerator the car will either roll back or you will stall it which could possibly make the car unstable and roll it
(i'll try to find the video that perfectly shows this...i can't access youtube at work)

Another reason is because im putting in a GTi engine into it so i would prefer to match the revs when i downshift so not to unsettle the car especially since the car will have 3-4" of lift without the swaybar.
Author:  masterA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
royce wrote:
No trouble with any car ive owned as well, I do it in the vit all the time cause 2nd gear syncro is stuffed :)


Hahaha...i know exactly what you mean
My swift GTi has the exact same problem and unless you can rev match the shift, it will just grind 2nd AND 3rd :P
Author:  masterA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
mongrelzook wrote:
How u trying heal or toe on throttle. Sometimes swapping makes it easier for different height pedals


Thanks for the tip.
I've tried it but don't feel comfortable doing that....i much rather the toe on the brake and the heal on the accelerator
Author:  masterA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
tanshi wrote:
Ive never had any issues with doing this in my Zook.

but i do have large feet


Some of us aren't that lucky :)
Author:  royce [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
I dont have big feet either, I use the left side of my shoe to work the brake and hit the throttle with the side of my shoe
Author:  mongrelzook [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
masterA wrote:
mongrelzook wrote:
How u trying heal or toe on throttle. Sometimes swapping makes it easier for different height pedals


Thanks for the tip.
I've tried it but don't feel comfortable doing that....i much rather the toe on the brake and the heal on the accelerator


Yeah that's how I do it too. Might need to weld a small block on ur throttle to lift it level with brake. Don't bend the pedals as you will not hit pedal stopper an stretch ur throttle cable
Author:  want33s [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
I do ok using my toes on the brake and heel on the throttle.
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
masterA wrote:
I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

Another reason is because im putting in a GTi engine into it so i would prefer to match the revs when i downshift so not to unsettle the car especially since the car will have 3-4" of lift without the swaybar.


Sounds like a complete contradiction here. You want to put less stress on all the vehicle components yet your driving it hard enough to unsettle it in corners.

So either:
A. You drive it super hard
B. Your suspension is sooo sloppy that the car becomes unsettled on any corner at any speed.

My sierra with 2 inch springs and 2 inch tire lift, RUF'd with long and super soft springs without a swaybar up/down shifting through fairly tight bends at 80+ only ever feels remotely unsetttled and this was due to running descent shocks under it (koni's).

With the el-cheapo shocks it felt like turning a corner in a 3-wheeled shopping cart if you changed gears through it.
Author:  shep [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
masterA wrote:
There are numerous reasons but one of the main ones is because i like the driving technique. I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

I hear what some of you are saying but i don't mean to race it and it will never be a race/rally car.
I've seen alot of pics and videos of sierras on strange and crazy angles and im sure most of you that know the driving technique would agree/prefer to heal and toe to get the car moving slowly.
You could let the clutch out and get it to the point where it starts to grip/move forward, but by the time you let go of the brake and apply the accelerator the car will either roll back or you will stall it which could possibly make the car unstable and roll it
(i'll try to find the video that perfectly shows this...i can't access youtube at work)

Another reason is because im putting in a GTi engine into it so i would prefer to match the revs when i downshift so not to unsettle the car especially since the car will have 3-4" of lift without the swaybar.


i dont touch the clutch at all when going slow. if i stall it i just key start with
no clutch. even when i am dragging my boat up a beach i still do a clutchless key start as
there is virtually no chance off wheel spin.
Author:  bakerboy [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
hills? in perth? where on earth are you going to require heal toe so you dont "unsettle" the car (although a lifted 4" with no swaybars your pushing shit up hill to make it handle great to start with) through a corner
Author:  303zuke [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
shep wrote:
masterA wrote:
There are numerous reasons but one of the main ones is because i like the driving technique. I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

I've seen alot of pics and videos of sierras on strange and crazy angles and im sure most of you that know the driving technique would agree/prefer to heal and toe to get the car moving slowly.
You could let the clutch out and get it to the point where it starts to grip/move forward, but by the time you let go of the brake and apply the accelerator the car will either roll back or you will stall it which could possibly make the car unstable and roll it


i dont touch the clutch at all when going slow. if i stall it i just key start with no clutch. even when i am dragging my boat up a beach i still do a clutchless key start as there is virtually no chance off wheel spin.


Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!
Author:  96coily [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
My handbrake works
Author:  96coily [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
bakerboy wrote:
hills? in perth? where on earth are you going to require heal toe so you dont "unsettle" the car (although a lifted 4" with no swaybars your pushing shit up hill to make it handle great to start with) through a corner


Still think you're on the wrong forum Princess :twisted:
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
303zuke wrote:
Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of runaway or driveline stress.



Lol you try that in an EFI vehicle and the auto idle up on starting will launch you down/up that hill! The Earlier G16b MPFI's will start up at ~1500RPM once you hit that key and she fires.
Carby vehicles no problem!

Just what you need when you are right on the see-sawing balance point :wink:
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
I never had an issue key starting my g16b dan
Author:  JrZook [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
tanshi wrote:
I never had an issue key starting my g16b dan


Early cone style MAF and working IAC? Its not uncommon for EFI vehicles to open up the idle air bypass valve for an increase in air (throttle) to get it running again from a stalled condition.

What I'm pointing out is that is not safe for all cars to do the clutch-less key start method. They do not operate all exactly the same.

Ie If i didn't know better and followed this advice to start my stalled car in a worrying predicament, it would uncontrollably launch where ever once she fires!
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
yeah i agree, its about knowing your car. and knowing your limits.

in the lj50 i spend almost all of my time using either my heel or my toe on the pedals to try and keep it running while i brake at the same time :)
Author:  alien [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
in these situations i usually hold the handbrake up hard, first gear, clutch pedal down, right foot on brake... slowly release clutch pedal till it bites then swap to accel all the while holding the handbrake up, then i drive the first bit with the brake still on and release it... this for me has given the smoothest takeoffs on angles.

the issue being that the pedal pressure you need to stay on the brake is quite high vs. the lightness on the pedal to gently accelerate IMO.
Author:  dominator [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
Yeah i moved the accelerator pedal a little bit. I heel and toe when 4wd on steep hills but only because i am not confident key starting. It is probably something i should learn tho.
Author:  steak_knife [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
royce wrote:
No trouble with any car ive owned as well, I do it in the vit all the time cause 2nd gear syncro is stuffed :)


I thought you were just trying to impress me.... :roll:
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
masterA wrote:
I've seen alot of pics and videos of sierras on strange and crazy angles and im sure most of you that know the driving technique would agree/prefer to heal and toe to get the car moving slowly.


NO! That's what gears are for. Trying to heel and toe a car on a big angle is a recipe for disaster. I suppose it's sometimes required if you have a carby and can't get it to run, but it's scary as hell. Take this from someone who hasn't just "seen it in photos" and has had to do it for real.

The solution to trying to heel and toe on big angles is

A) Gears
B) Line lock
C) Auto

masterA wrote:
Another reason is because im putting in a GTi engine into it so i would prefer to match the revs when i downshift so not to unsettle the car especially since the car will have 3-4" of lift without the swaybar.


I think you are vastly overestimating the drivability of a sierra. I like to carry a bit of speed on fast dirt, even in a sierra- but what gear change do you think you can avoid "unsettling" a sierra on the way into a corner? If you are on the brakes and carrying speed it's already unsettled, if anything, stabbing a gear change in there helps to unsettle the car more and tip the nose in, which is desirable because it helps you to drive around the woefully slow sierra steering.

Go crazy and raise the accelerator pedal, but I really think it's the wrong car to try and get this sorted in. I'd be looking more at trying to improve brake feel so you have a chance of feeling what's going on as much as anything.

Steve.
Author:  SSSIERA [ Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heal and toe with sierra pedals?!
put a hand throttle on ur gear stick. easier than tryna bend brake pedals
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