[5ierra]

This is mainly to get some discussion going on things i have been considering for a little while... I have no intention on doing them for a long time... if at all, but its just silly little (well pretty f**cking large) things could be fun talking about.

1) Suzuki Sierra (LWB) on 14" or 16" inch air shocks... while the concept has been done a million times over, in this instance it is a road car

The issue with this isnt whether it is possible to install them, its restraining the car itself becase you would get fuck all resistence out of the shocks when cornering.

My Idea:
-3 link front
-4 link rear
-standard sway bar front
-rock lock sway bar rear (similar to the set up joe has built on Ken's LJ)

Alternatively, would it be possible to eliminate the sway bars and use removeable limiting straps while the vehicle is on tarmac?

2) G16B dry sump.

I have a mate atm who is building up a street car with a dry sump, he explained the concept to me and i liked it, and can see there would be some advantages to usuing it on a sierra with a g16 engine...

-more clearence between the diff and sump = room for panhard/lower ride height.
-more power
-no starvation of oil

Anyone ever ran a dry sump? haha

Cheers guys, enjoy my pointless idea's let me know what you think.

John.

[jonno_racing]

how do you justify more power off dry sump?
my mate is running one on his race car, and the actual new pump creates quite a bit more load and a little loss of power.

[5ierra]

jonno_racing wrote:

how do you justify more power off dry sump?
my mate is running one on his race car, and the actual new pump creates quite a bit more load and a little loss of power.

Its not a huge gain but basically the crankshaft doesnt have to sludge thorugh as much oil and can move more freely, thus giving a gain.

Its possible that the dry sump you mate is running is delivering more oil to the crank then previous and creating more load for it.

[Rusho]

Aren't air shocks used by themselves a no go for road going use

[5ierra]

Rusho wrote:

Aren't air shocks used by themselves a no go for road going use

haha had to rain on my parade nice and early lol.

Lets say hypothetically they are anyways...

[JrZook]

5ierra wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

how do you justify more power off dry sump?
my mate is running one on his race car, and the actual new pump creates quite a bit more load and a little loss of power.

Its not a huge gain but basically the crankshaft doesnt have to sludge thorugh as much oil and can move more freely, thus giving a gain.

Its possible that the dry sump you mate is running is delivering more oil to the crank then previous and creating more load for it.

Lol crank should never be in contact with the oil in the sump unless its over full.

[Red89]

The swaybars like Joes one would actually be better on road for airshocks then limiting straps and apparently dont limit flex offroad to any considerable extent.

[5ierra]

JrZook wrote:

5ierra wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

how do you justify more power off dry sump?
my mate is running one on his race car, and the actual new pump creates quite a bit more load and a little loss of power.

Its not a huge gain but basically the crankshaft doesnt have to sludge thorugh as much oil and can move more freely, thus giving a gain.

Its possible that the dry sump you mate is running is delivering more oil to the crank then previous and creating more load for it.

Lol crank should never be in contact with the oil in the sump unless its over full.

I'm just going by nearly every article about dry sump i've read. Below is an extract of one said article:

"The primary advantage of a dry sump system is its ability to make more power. With very little oil in the pan, the rotating assembly is not burdened with the weight of excess oil (a phenomenon commonly referred to as "windage"). And because there is no internal pump, the windage tray or screen which serves to isolate sump oil from the rotating assembly, is allowed to run the full length of the pan. Keeping the rotating assembly free of windage allows it to spin freely and make more power. In addition, the extra crankcase vacuum created by the dry sump pump helps to improve ring seal for additional power gain"

[5ierra]

Red89 wrote:

The swaybars like Joes one would actually be better on road for airshocks then limiting straps and apparently dont limit flex offroad to any considerable extent.

Thats exactly what i was thinking, not to mention there would be some "give" there at the limit, rather then a strap that would take tension nearly instantly and want to rip the tire upwards, haha.

[tanshi]

I say actually get out and wheel the one you have

[royce]

Lots of people talk about air shocks are no good (assuming we are talking fox shocks) but then a lot of people seem to jsut gas and go with em rather than setting them up and tuning them so that might be how that comes about

IVe read a good thing about a hame made dry sump on a GTI motor somewhere ill try and dig up, would be good for driving on your roof

[tanshi]

royce wrote:

would be good for driving on your roof

2 strokes are good for that also

[5ierra]

royce wrote:

Lots of people talk about air shocks are no good (assuming we are talking fox shocks) but then a lot of people seem to jsut gas and go with em rather than setting them up and tuning them so that might be how that comes about

IVe read a good thing about a hame made dry sump on a GTI motor somewhere ill try and dig up, would be good for driving on your roof

Finally someones getting it

As for the shocks, that was one of the other draws to it. You can adjust the oil/nitrogen (or what ever gas it is they run in them) to adjust ride hieght and return rate/damper etc... If you could get the sway sorted then the ride quality shouldnt be bad either...

as for you Darren... gtfo

[royce]

ahhh see already you dont get the shocks

You can adjust ride height with gas pressure, oil level for spring rate, oil viscosity will effect overall shocks 'stiffness' or you crack em open and fiddle witht eh discs and stuff inside for bump and rebound adjustment

[5ierra]

thats what i said? haha. (just not a technical )

[Fatzook]

Whats the purpose of the airshocks?

From what I have read on them they can be set-up so they work well on the street, but offroad performance suffers. Same in reverse.

I would imagine that if you had them set up for offroad use they would give next to no roll stability at speed or on the street. Swaybars would definately help, but it would all be very fiddly to setup I imagine.

As for the dry sump, I don't see the point unless you are actually using the extra space. If you need it to lower your motor, or for diff clearance then it would be cool, aslong as you can finiance the operation. Dry sump scavenge pumps can get really expensive.

[got_bar_work]

Typing on iPhone sucks

[got_bar_work]

In theory air shocks that are set up right is the best suspension ever
Look at the theory behind the citron suspension
It rides smoother than any other type of steel spring ever created and has perfect even ground pressure on each tire
Now the problem is to get that to work in a car with long travel and without the millions citron spent on r&d over the years
If there is a way to externally link all the shocks to one adjustable nitrogen tank so that each corner would have the same pressure acting on it
Only problem would be building a car with even weigh distribution

[5ierra]

Fatzook wrote:

Whats the purpose of the airshocks?

From what I have read on them they can be set-up so they work well on the street, but offroad performance suffers. Same in reverse.

I would imagine that if you had them set up for offroad use they would give next to no roll stability at speed or on the street. Swaybars would definately help, but it would all be very fiddly to setup I imagine.

As for the dry sump, I don't see the point unless you are actually using the extra space. If you need it to lower your motor, or for diff clearance then it would be cool, aslong as you can finiance the operation. Dry sump scavenge pumps can get really expensive.

Hence why i was saying the standard front sway and rocklock, as it would be easy to remove/engage, problem there is the standard sway bar isnt design for the loads it would encounter...

As for dry sump, it will probably never happen, just like the idea, haha, and if i were to go to that effort it would be silly not to lower the engine/over all ride height and bring the COG down

[5ierra]

got_bar_work wrote:

In theory air shocks that are set up right is the best suspension ever
Look at the theory behind the citron suspension
It rides smoother than any other type of steel spring ever created and has perfect even ground pressure on each tire
Now the problem is to get that to work in a car with long travel and without the millions citron spent on r&d over the years
If there is a way to externally link all the shocks to one adjustable nitrogen tank so that each corner would have the same pressure acting on it
Only problem would be building a car with even weigh distribution

Sierra's definately dont have this

[got_bar_work]

That can be fixed. start with a vit and drop in a electric motor where the gearbox is

[5ierra]

got_bar_work wrote:

That can be fixed. start with a vit and drop in a electric motor where the gearbox is

but then i need to install a solid axel in the front

[TryHard]

hey man iv though about this my self to be honest and might try to do it in the future but like others have said u can only really set up the shocks for one application on road or off road .. u might struggle to find a happy medium

the other problem is the price Tag it would be alot cheap to set it up as a comp truck .. but yes i know thats not the point .. i feel the same way id love to have my zook as rig with 4 link f/r air shocks 37's and road legal but i just cant see that happing in my State ..

other problem u will find is u go to all this effort to run this gear but the maximum lift u can have is 100 mill even with engineering correct me if i wrong guys ..

the way i look at it ur gona be spending a bucket load ..

umm but a good rig to look into is the graviton rig .. i think he has a build thread on here .. not sure how much he sank into it .. but it is road legal and
what u and i both want to aim for .. i just see my aim as a pipe dream

[5ierra]

TryHard wrote:

hey man iv though about this my self to be honest and might try to do it in the future but like others have said u can only really set up the shocks for one application on road or off road .. u might struggle to find a happy medium

the other problem is the price Tag it would be alot cheap to set it up as a comp truck .. but yes i know thats not the point .. i feel the same way id love to have my zook as rig with 4 link f/r air shocks 37's and road legal but i just cant see that happing in my State ..

other problem u will find is u go to all this effort to run this gear but the maximum lift u can have is 100 mill even with engineering correct me if i wrong guys ..

the way i look at it ur gona be spending a bucket load ..

umm but a good rig to look into is the graviton rig .. i think he has a build thread on here .. not sure how much he sank into it .. but it is road legal and
what u and i both want to aim for .. i just see my aim as a pipe dream

Not aiming for lift, half the reason for air shocks is you can have the best of both worlds, a low ride heght and shit loads of travel. Guard cutting wouldn't be an issue. Ideally if i were to run one or both of the above idea's I would be aiming for as close to standard right height as you could get (not including the lift from the tires)

On a side note, while i like brentzooks (i think thats him) Rig, its HIGH! like, nosebleed section high. No way would you be able to run it in QLD or WA.

[TryHard]

Ok so your going to do this and make a very low COG Rig ok F/e good idea but i think its still alot of effort .. what tyres are u planing on running on it ? etc u say close to standard lift how much of your Guards are u going to have left ?

[tanshi]

we are in the planning stages of a LJ50 streched on 40s,

not road legal obviously, but we will be doing it with no more than 2 inches of lift, and the rest just tyres

[TryHard]

tanshi wrote:

we are in the planning stages of a LJ50 streched on 40s,

not road legal obviously, but we will be doing it with no more than 2 inches of lift, and the rest just tyres

see to me that makes sence haha

What are u going to make The WB .. 100 or 110 ?

[5ierra]

TryHard wrote:

Ok so your going to do this and make a very low COG Rig ok F/e good idea but i think its still alot of effort .. what tyres are u planing on running on it ? etc u say close to standard lift how much of your Guards are u going to have left ?

If i'm keeping it road legal it will be a daily driver, haha. 31's, probably cut to clear AT LEAST 33" tires.

While there will be alot of guard cutting, take into account that you can run 31's with nothing more then a 2" lift. And Gwagonsteves had his hands in a project where they ran 37's on a zook with no lift.

Worst case scenario I look doen the tube front clip option is i have to lose THAT much guard, and with that said, it wouldnt be bad because then i can move the diff forward the the point where i have a 90 degree approach angle (extreme i know just usuing it as an example)

As for cost, I dont think it would be all that much more expensive then going to coilovers anyway. alot of the same work would be required to get the linkages right, only difference would be getting the sway bars right. But with that said you would really want to put in that sort of work with coils anyway.

[TryHard]

haha sounds good .. dam lowrider projects the lowest id want to go is 2about Equivlent to 2 inch and 37s

[tanshi]

ours if it ever gets out of the planning stages will have 110 inch wheel base. and around 1.9 meters from WMS to WMS