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harvs
az supporter
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 192 Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:09 am |
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So I finished it today. Hooray I said as it burst into life almost immediately after I hit the key.
So other than the exhaust leaking where it bolts onto the cat I thought everything was fine as I went and did the first 50 odd kms on it.
Now I've brought it back into town I can see it blows smoke after backing off down a hill (couldn't see it at 80 from in the car.) hmmm...
Blows smoke after its been left sit for a while then started
Pulled the plugs out, looks like the top of the pistons is wet with something, all of them. Its clear so not sure if its water (haven't added the coolant yet) or oil.
When it's running the exhaust feels kind of wet, like when you start a cold car in the morning and all the condensation comes out.
So I did a compression test on No 1 cyl, 155psi. Or pretty much what I had before I started. No real surprises there, I didn't actually find anything significantly wrong.
The whole smoke thing could have been there before to, not sure because I've put 10W30 in as recommended instead of the 20w50 I was running before.
Pull the oil filler cap off, steady stream of pulsing air coming out...
Considering all, I'm a bit fucking over it...
Any suggestions other than burning it? I seriously don't feel like pulling this thing out again.
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:15 am |
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ignore it till its bedded in and everything is doing what its sposed to sounds like a good first option
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skyman
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm Posts: 1328 Location: Yakima, wa (us)
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:25 am |
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royce wrote: ignore it till its bedded in and everything is doing what its sposed to sounds like a good first option
I completely agree. we had an engine here that smoked for almost 700 miles before the rings bedded in. The cylinder walls in the these engines are hard as a rock, so it takes longer for the rings to fully seat.
Mine smoked for the first two drives, after that it sealed up nice and tight, although it can take a lot more than that to seat the rings.
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harvs
az supporter
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 192 Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:02 am |
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Yeah I might have been a bit too hasty to call it stuffed.
I've done another 100kms and it's still smoking after a long de-acceleration. But the engine is puring like a kitten, and while there are pulses coming out of the oil filler, I put my hand over it and there's zero pressure.
Makes me wonder though, is there anything other than the valve stem seals that could be letting oil in under high vacuum? (the head workshop overhauled the head and re-assembled so I can only assume they did a good job.)
How about a sticking PCV valve? I'm just plucking at anything here.
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Scrawny
I live here!
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 10525 Location: Brissie
Vehicle: Popemobile
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:05 am |
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It's probably just oil getting past the rings. Don't let it idle at all and give it a good, hard run
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skyman
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm Posts: 1328 Location: Yakima, wa (us)
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:55 am |
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Shep is right, do not let it idle. You want to do very short full throttle runs. increasing the RPM limit as you go. So the first few runs only take it to 3500 (at full throttle). Shut it off, let it cool down. Then the next run take it up to 4500 RPM getting there again at full throttle, then next 5500 etc.. Also DO NOT lug the engine (Like up shift too early and chug up a hill it is very bad for the bearings.
It usually takes a good 150+miles to get the ring to start to bed in and stop smoking, and another 350 to get the internals to loosen up and the engine start to gain power.
Here is the reason most Suzuki 1.6 and 1.3 engines take along time to bed in the rings, and smoke while doing so.
The bores in the engine block are notoriously very hard metal, and the only rings you can get for a Suzuki engine are chromoly (again very hard material). Now when an engine is freshly machined the bores are rough, and the rings are smooth. This makes for gaps between the rigns and cylinder all for oil to escape through.
For the oil to stop, the rings have to wear down the rough edges on the cylinder wall first, then the are tiny grooves left in the bore for oil to escape past. As the engine is run more and more, the rings begin to actually wear into those grooves, sealing them up. So the rings fit the cylinders almost like puzzle pieces.
If the grooves and ridges on the rings and bores were big enough to see, then while looking down the bore you wold see ridges all along the outside diameter of the rings, and those ridges would correspond with grooves in the cylinder bore, making a nice tight seal.
Now the problem with Suzuki engines (not really a problem), stated above is that the material the bore, and rings are made if is extremely hard. This means that it takes more time for these engines to bed in than most.
I have had personal experience with rings in these engines that took a LONG time to bed in. Sometimes the seal up and don;t smoke after a few miles, other engines can take up to 500+ miles to seal up.
Don't worry just be patient and by all means be sure to break it in like the guys who built your engine said you should. Your engine ill coem right, it's just going to take a little time.
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harvs
az supporter
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 192 Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:02 am |
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skyman wrote: The bores in the engine block are notoriously very hard metal, and the only rings you can get for a Suzuki engine are chromoly (again very hard material).
Yeah I can believe that. The bores still had the honing swirls in them after 200,000kms... skyman wrote: by all means be sure to break it in like the guys who built your engine said you should.
That would be me...
Its not the first engine I've built... But it is the first one I've built that's got sleaved bores (and hence probably much harder.) All the others have been the old cast iron blocks. I guess my expectations were just wrong. Anyway, I'll take all the good advice and blissfully ignore any smoke while I'm running it in.
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skyman
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm Posts: 1328 Location: Yakima, wa (us)
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:09 am |
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Oh yeah, the cast iron bores with iron rig break in so nice and smooth. The bonus of these hard assed engines is that like you said, they still save machining marks after 200k Kms. They last forever.
By reading your post over the last few eeks, I kinda figures you had been built and engine or two. I hope i didn;t over explain, I just figured it would help anyone else who came across the thread too.
I had no idea about the engines until my Zook friend (master mechanic) tol me about a huge cluster -&(% he got into. He rebuilt the head twice, and re-ringed the engine twice as well to get it to stop smoking. (never did quit smoking for him)The guy who owned it ended up selling it. The new owner drove it 150 miles across the mountain pass here and it stopped smoking by the time he was home.
My mechanic buddy, and the guy who sold that Zook were both spewin' 150miles of hard roads solved the problem they had fought for two months.
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harvs
az supporter
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 192 Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:18 am |
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^^^ Thats a good story...
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skyman
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm Posts: 1328 Location: Yakima, wa (us)
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:56 am |
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Yeah, kind of a bummer the guy sold his samurai, it was a nice rig. They just never drove it more than 15-20 miles, so I guess the rig never got hot enough, or was driven long enough to break it in.
The bummer is that Samurai's are rare in my area,and with that one sold,there's one less guy to wheel Zooks with for me
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Jackson
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:56 am Posts: 559 Location: Newcastle
Vehicle: Yellow Ute
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:27 am |
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Also don't worry about the air blowing on your hand when you take the cap off. The G series engines have a positive displacement sump or something. Unless you don't have a G series motor haha.
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harvs
az supporter
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 192 Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:30 am |
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Its a J...
But nar, no pressure anyway, lots of air just moving in and out so nothing to worry about.
I'm just use to big old cast iron dinosaurs that behave a little differently.
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