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dank
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 1157 Location: VIC
Vehicle: WR250F/Jeep XJ
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:21 am |
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Hey guys, after pretzling my indian aftermarket tierod on the weekend doing some rock crawling no one except superior seem to supply a standard HD bolt on HD setup. At $750 for a superior unit I think it's out of reach for the average zook driver.
I have a supplier who is interested to make some heavy duty draglink/tierod combos that would bolt into the standard suzuki. Looking at only producing widetrack versions but if there is enough interest we could look at NT as well.
Please post here with your thoughts and also vote in the poll so i can get an idea of interest.
It's all in the interests of providing a good Heavy Duty product at an affordable price. At this stage some heavy wall mild steel pipe or mecaval are the options as i think CrMo is probably overkill in a zook and cost prohibitive.
Let me know your thoughts, would you buy one at the right price?
PS - this would include upgraded greasable tie rod ends most likely out of a 40 series as they have same taper i believe.
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607CHA
az supporter
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:21 pm Posts: 265 Location: Baldhills
Vehicle: 02 jimny
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:11 am |
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Pending on price. me
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LIVING LIFE ON THE EDGE, TILL YA ROLL
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:14 am |
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youll find CrMo grades in that size to be not a lot dearer than carbon steel due to availability
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Reubs
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1522 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: SJ80, SE416
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:50 am |
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Any thoughts on Jimny/Coily models?
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Samurai81
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 385 Location: Kapiti Coast, New Zealand
Vehicle: Samurai G16, DMax.
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:55 am |
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I'll pick it up when I come to Melbourne just before Christmas. Steve.
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92 Samurai G16
DMax
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:10 am |
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I jsut asked the guru, 4140 is available in 30mm solid easy enough, for probably around $3.30 per kg carbon steel is around $2 so its not too much more considering the strength increase
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zooktastic
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 941 Location: west sydney
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:23 am |
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im keen as hell, can come down to pick it up as ill write the trip off on tax anyways 
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Reubs
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1522 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: SJ80, SE416
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:26 am |
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royce wrote: I jsut asked the guru, 4140 is available in 30mm solid easy enough, for probably around $3.30 per kg carbon steel is around $2 so its not too much more considering the strength increase
So by those figures...
Density of 4140 (D) = 7810kg/m^3 (according to a google...)
Length of a draglink (L) = 1.4m (maybe I don't have one in front of me right now)
Radius of draglink (r) = 0.015m
mass = D x L x pi x r^2
mass = 7810 x 1.4 x pi x 0.015^2
mass = about 8kg ea
Not too bad. So most of the cost would be machining and the ends plus markup then.
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shiv
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 am Posts: 693 Location: Singo
Vehicle: SJ70 1993
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:42 am |
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Noob question, advantages of this setup?
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Lock, Drop and roll
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Bucket
az supporter
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 2191 Location: Vic
Vehicle: SJ50 hardtop!
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:42 am |
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Sounds good. I might be interested down the track. Do you have any estimations on how much you'd idealy want to sell the setup for?
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shakes
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:30 pm Posts: 4895 Location: Northcote
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:45 am |
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shiv wrote: Noob question, advantages of this setup? dank wrote: Hey guys, after pretzling my indian aftermarket tierod on the weekend doing some rock crawling no one except superior seem to supply a standard HD bolt on HD setup. At $750 for a superior unit I think it's out of reach for the average zook driver.
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:48 am |
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shiv wrote: Noob question, advantages of this setup?
So these are a replacement for the steering arms between the wheels and I assume from teh steering box as well
As well as being a bigger chunk of metal, its also likely to be a stronger grade which combined makes it harder to bend when you bash it on things
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christover1
az supporter
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:30 pm Posts: 8203 Location: Melbourne
Vehicle: Pajero 91 NH 3.0 SWB
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:50 am |
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shiv wrote: Noob question, advantages of this setup?
Stock ones bend easily,
when you add bigger tyres, more offset,
power steering,
and do serious off road.
Weakened tie bar can also contribute to the death wobbles.
I found it very difficult to find straight ones at wreckers.
I have not voted, because I don't have a Sierra now.
Already strengthened Vit steering a bit.
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monley
az supporter
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 am Posts: 11092 Location: Mandurah.W.A.
Vehicle: 84 LWB NT
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:00 am |
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Reubs wrote: Any thoughts on Jimny/Coily models?
X2
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Tell my arse, he actually gives a crap!
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shiv
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 am Posts: 693 Location: Singo
Vehicle: SJ70 1993
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:03 am |
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Ah ok cheers, i may be new to 4x4 but im i like splurging on my toys
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Lock, Drop and roll
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dank
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 1157 Location: VIC
Vehicle: WR250F/Jeep XJ
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:49 am |
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ey lads, thanks for the response, obvious benefits are no probs with bent steering. I've bent mine twice now once hitting a tree stump and then would you believe just regular steering but the drivers side was loaded up and bent the tie rod on the rocks as I have massive forearms with no PS.
I really don't know what price they would be at this stage so I won't speculate until i do the costings and speak to my supplier.
Royce thanks for the tech info mate, that does help, maybe CrMo will be an option.
This is what i did on the weekend strong arm steering.
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birko
az supporter
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 573 Location: Perth WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:20 am |
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yep id be interested for sure. My current HD setup is spare arms cable tied to my rollbar 
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:25 am |
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my engineer specified my draglink and tierod had to be a a certain alloy, i cant remember the grade exactly but he was very specific and it had to be solid bar not tube...
just FYI =)
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dank
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 1157 Location: VIC
Vehicle: WR250F/Jeep XJ
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:27 pm |
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thats interesting becasue heavy wall tube is actually stronger than solid...so i've heard.
THere is enough interest to pursue this so I will move forward and come back with more info as we go through the process.
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SierraDan
az supporter
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:55 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Newcastle
Vehicle: G13BB Jimny
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:35 pm |
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The heavy wall tube has a bit more give than the solid, so it bends a little and goes back on the smaller knocks. From what i've been told, and seems to make sense.
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mlm
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monley
az supporter
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 am Posts: 11092 Location: Mandurah.W.A.
Vehicle: 84 LWB NT
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:40 pm |
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Jimny to dank
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Tell my arse, he actually gives a crap!
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SierraDan
az supporter
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:55 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Newcastle
Vehicle: G13BB Jimny
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:42 pm |
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monkey wrote: Jimny to dank The Jimny wouldn't make it that far!
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:56 pm |
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dank wrote: thats interesting becasue heavy wall tube is actually stronger than solid...so i've heard.
THere is enough interest to pursue this so I will move forward and come back with more info as we go through the process.
no way!
For a given total weight, tube will be stronger than solid (as it will be a greater OD) but for same OD solid will take more to bend
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trity
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:49 pm Posts: 250 Location: Perth, WA
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:46 am |
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I'd be interested depending on price and postage to WA
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tanshi
az supporter
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:30 pm Posts: 7717 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:05 am |
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Yep, id be interested too
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Dale
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:42 am Posts: 80 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: Sierra
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:17 am |
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royce wrote: dank wrote: thats interesting becasue heavy wall tube is actually stronger than solid...so i've heard.
THere is enough interest to pursue this so I will move forward and come back with more info as we go through the process. no way! For a given total weight, tube will be stronger than solid (as it will be a greater OD) but for same OD solid will take more to bend If you have a solid tube and a thick walled tube both with the same OD then the thick walled tube will be stronger under torsion stress. This is assuming it is designed correctly. However these drag links are not failing due to torsional stress, so a solid tube will be stronger assuming the same OD.
Dale
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:44 am |
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Dale wrote: royce wrote: dank wrote: thats interesting becasue heavy wall tube is actually stronger than solid...so i've heard.
THere is enough interest to pursue this so I will move forward and come back with more info as we go through the process. no way! For a given total weight, tube will be stronger than solid (as it will be a greater OD) but for same OD solid will take more to bend If you have a solid tube and a thick walled tube both with the same OD then the thick walled tube will be stronger under torsion stress. This is assuming it is designed correctly. However these drag links are not failing due to torsional stress, so a solid tube will be stronger assuming the same OD. Dale why arent all oem axles hollow then? would save them heaps to use alighter material
1 litre sierra had a solid driveshaft and it was tiny, if it was hollow it would twist first go
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bakerboy
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 2291 Location: Perth
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:15 am |
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or torsion bars? pretty certain mone are solid not hollow hahah
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ajsr
az supporter
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 3712 Location: melb
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:41 am |
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royce wrote: dank wrote: thats interesting becasue heavy wall tube is actually stronger than solid...so i've heard.
THere is enough interest to pursue this so I will move forward and come back with more info as we go through the process. no way! For a given total weight, tube will be stronger than solid (as it will be a greater OD) but for same OD solid will take more to bend agreed
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Gwagensteve
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 13007 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:33 am |
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royce wrote:
why arent all oem axles hollow then? would save them heaps to use alighter material
1 litre sierra had a solid driveshaft and it was tiny, if it was hollow it would twist first go
Research "gun drilling" axles.
Very small loss of torsional strength for a huge increase in flexibility, which might well reduce failure. Not the same issue as impact load on a steering rod though.
I am interested Dank, but I am interested on how you are going to deal with the drag link and weird double ball joint thingy.
Some hd rods with big greasable ball joints would be cool. Then we'd break steering boxes and knuckles
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