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LJ50 suddenly playing up
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Author:  Ammann [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ok so the engine in my 50 always seemed fine - I have nothing to compare it to but theres some steep tracks round my way and it never seemed to struggle.

However I took it out on the weekend and it has suddenly started playing up to the point of not really wanting to drive it.

Symptoms:
Lack of power
Keeps cutting out momentarily
Nasty backfires
Won't idle - sounds as if its trying to run on one or two cylinders.
Just doesn't sound quite right - kinda raspy

I looked at the plugs and they all looked the same - a bit dark and carbonised but pretty much what I would expect.

What's next? I should be looking at the carby now, right?
Author:  MrRocky [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
clean your plugs, check your leads
sounds like its overfuelling or not getting enough, also check your choke at the carb isnt stuck
Author:  303zuke [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
1. Compression test. You won't get big numbers, but you do want to see roughly equal pressures to ensure Crank Seals haven't blown.

2. Check Ignition. I'd be heading straight for the Coil and/or Condensor replace them with known good bits. Double check all electrical connections in the Ig circuit. Check Dist timing, and check the Dist clamp hasn't come loose allowing it to rotate slightly.
Author:  3cyl [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
I'm thinking points have worn and timing is retarded. Points are Bosch GD207. Check and clean out fuelpump and carby too.
Author:  JrZook [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
3cyl wrote:
I'm thinking points have worn and timing is retarded. Points are Bosch GD207. Check and clean out fuelpump and carby too.


This is what I'd be looking at as well as the condenser.
Author:  TZAR [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Do you run pre mix fuel or use the oil injector thingy?
Author:  2stroker [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Points

and dont forget asmear of grease on the distributor shaft when you change them
Author:  Ammann [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ok I'll go through all this stuff. Points don't look to be pitted at all, but I'll check the gap. TSAR it's just using the oil pump not premix.

Remember it happened all of a sudden - it was going fine when I put it away, then pulled it out and was running rough.
Author:  3cyl [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ammann wrote:
Ok I'll go through all this stuff. Points don't look to be pitted at all, but I'll check the gap. TSAR it's just using the oil pump not premix.

Remember it happened all of a sudden - it was going fine when I put it away, then pulled it out and was running rough.

Often the fibre rubbing block that rubs on the distributor shaft (where the 6 point hexagonal part is) wears out from not having grease put on it and the points open too late and change dwell and timing. Normally doesn happen straight away like that though but sometines you just notice it. Could be coil too I guess but points is where I'd look first.
Author:  2stroker [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Any progress on this one yet.
Author:  Ammann [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
No luck at all on this.
I played with timing, replaced cap, rotor,points condenser. Points weren't worn anyway. cleaned out carby somewhat - jets looked fine. Cleaned and checked plug gap.

Funny thing the new points will only open up to 0.4mm so I can't get it to 0.7mm. [Edit: oops just realised spec is actually 0.4mm]

I notice that when I remove the lead on #3 plug there is no change to revs. When I remove #1 or #2 to it quickly starts to die.

I've juggled leads and plugs and no change.

Basically nothing I've tried makes any difference. It won't idle without a fair bit of choke, and I would say it lacks power compared to how it was.

Man I wish I new someone else with a running 50 so I could tell how it was supposed to sound and run.
Author:  MrRocky [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
new leads
Author:  Ammann [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Yeah I've tried swapping leads from other vehicles it has no effect.

I'm find it starts ok if it has been sitting but it very hard to re-start if running in the previous few minutes.
Author:  Ammann [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ok I have 120psi compression in #1, 130psi in #2, and 0psi in #3.

:?

Zero is not good, right. So what's next?
Author:  MrRocky [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
rebuild it cause its fucked

or sell it to me
Author:  Ammann [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Damn. Well since it going to be out of action for a time I'll take some last photos.

Image
Author:  TZAR [ Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ammann wrote:
Ok I have 120psi compression in #1, 130psi in #2, and 0psi in #3.

:?

Zero is not good, right. So what's next?


Had the same problem in my LJ20. Cracked a bit out of the piston.

Its easy for you cause pistons, rings pins bearings are all available from suzuki still. About $50.00 each

And get a complete gasket kit from repco for about $120
ACL gasket kit GD720

Check the condition of the reed valves and if they are rooted take them to a old boat mechanic and see what he has that is the same.
Author:  Ammann [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
I see there are rebuild kits on eBay for $ 275.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-Reco- ... 1272wt_689

I haven't rebuilt an engine before but I am not fazed. Just not sure about finding time. It be good to do a bit more diagnosis before dropping $$$ on parts.

Any suggestion on how to do this? Should I just pull the engine and start dismantling until I find the problem or are there more checks I can do in situ. I know I can pour oil into the cylinder and test compression again.
Author:  TZAR [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
all you have to do is slip the head off and have a look. its only 6 bolts (i think) then you can see in the chambers and see whats going on.

HOPEFUlly its just a cracked piston and it hasnt gouged out the bores. but if you have no compression at all in one cylinder oil aint going to help.

Pull the head off take some pics and show us. you dont need to pull the engine out either. can be done in car quite easily
Author:  Ammann [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
No luck yet. Bolt #6 is very stuck. I'm not game to use any more force using a 12 point spanner or socket on it.

Do 14mm 6 point spanners exist?

The car is in a remote place and only brought an ordinary set of spanners to work on it. I'll have to come back with a torch and try heating it. It could be several weeks until I get back to work on it.

So it is going to be very slooow progress on this one.
Author:  Ammann [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ok I did a bit more work on the LJ50 today.

And it would appear I'm making a bit of a mess of things.

I removed the had bolts and had one casualty. The head of the #4 bolt snapped off after a half turn of so. :oops:

Anyway the head still wont come off. I've removed 10 bolts plus one nut behind the thermostat housing as per the manual. Also an alternator mount bolt that was attached to the head.

Anything else need to come off before the head should come free? How about the heater valve or the other thing that looks like a temp sender?
Author:  sideways [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Ammann wrote:
Ok I did a bit more work on the LJ50 today.

And it would appear I'm making a bit of a mess of things.

I removed the had bolts and had one casualty. The head of the #4 bolt snapped off after a half turn of so. :oops:

Anyway the head still wont come off. I've removed 10 bolts plus one nut behind the thermostat housing as per the manual. Also an alternator mount bolt that was attached to the head.

Anything else need to come off before the head should come free? How about the heater valve or the other thing that looks like a temp sender?


Just the head bolts and the one under the thermostat housing got mine off. Mine was pretty much a bare engine though. It did take a bit of persuasion to get the head to release its self from the block!

My guess is there's corrosion on no. 4 bolt that's not letting it come loose.

If you really can't get the head off, you can unbolt the cylinders and pull those and the head off as one.

Ps, I love your LJ50, hardtops are my favorite! :D :D I think you need slightly bigger tyres though, those ones look lost in the guards! :)

Keep us posted. :)
Author:  Ammann [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Hey thanks, I originally wanted an LJ81!

Anyway yeah I think its the corrosion in the #4 bolt. It comes loose in the top but not the bottom where the bolt is.
Author:  TasRat [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
I'm no expert on these, but before you get carried away I'd be checking basic stuff again

Did you check the plugs?, If you pull a lead with no change then that would indicate a fault with spark

Vacuum leaks?
Author:  TZAR [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
TasRat wrote:
I'm no expert on these, but before you get carried away I'd be checking basic stuff again

Did you check the plugs?, If you pull a lead with no change then that would indicate a fault with spark

Vacuum leaks?


What about the 0 psi compression??? and the head on a LJ50 motor is easy to pull off. Its just the head, no valves nothing extra just the head
Author:  Ammann [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
Still no luck getting the head off despite pulling quite hard. I can apply as much force as I dare by wrapping a large ratchet strap around the thermostat housing and heater valve an attaching to a beam but it still wont come loose. I could slip something it between the head and cylinder and lever, it but I'm afraid of damaging the surface of the head.

Sadly starting to consider putting the car on ebay.
Author:  MrRocky [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
mmmmm get manual check all steps for removing head
check check check everything is undone - zorst, manifold, belts ect...
Author:  Ammann [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
The manual just says remove the bolts on the head itself. Surely shouldn't have to remove zorst, manifold, belts ect.. or am I missing something?
Author:  sideways [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LJ50 suddenly playing up
MrRocky wrote:
mmmmm get manual check all steps for removing head
check check check everything is undone - zorst, manifold, belts ect...


You don't need too undo any of those to get an LJ50 head off! :lol:

Unbolt the cylinder block and take it and the head off as one unit. When you get it bored out/shaved ect get them to take them apart. They'l be able to do it without hurting anything. :)
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