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THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
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Author:  joeblow [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
ok, sorry its taken a while, but here it goes.

let me just say for starters that the vit 4 speed auto is a work of art, and bullet-proof. our group has been using them for years now and without any headaches. the only downside is they generate alot of cabin heat! once installed there sould be no reason to ever pull it out.
G13A-G16A
unless you can fab up your own sensors don't waste your time trying to put one of these behind a carby engine. there is one critical circuit that comes from the ecu to the trannie ecu that is very hard to duplicate- consulted with electronic dudes and would proove costly. if you want the system to be 100% reliable and bug free use a 16 valve efi.
IF YOU HAVE A JIMNY MOTOR AND ECU YOU ARE STUCK WITH USING THE HOPELESSLY UNRELIABLE JIMNY AUTO. THE ECU'S ARE INTERGRATED INTO ONE UNIT.
SWIFT TBI G16
i have gone through the data and once again it wont work with these engines as a 4 speed electronic auto was not an option with these vehicles.
WHAT ENGINE CAN I USE THEM WITH?
any type 1 or type 2 mpi motor from the early vits, as long as the vehicle had seperate ecu's you will be fine, if they don't, like on very late models, you will need to buy engine and trannie as a package, ie- half cut. if you have an mpi 1600 in your vehicle now it could be done- but- hopefully the wiring was done correctly, and i mean nice. if you have a manual computer guess what?...you CAN use the auto. these ecu's send out the signals for the auto's but are missing the female pins in the plug side of the loom. if you are using an aftermarket ecu i'll put $10 it won't work.

in the next installment i will be going into detail on how it fits, what combo's you can run, and what its like to drive on.....hope this will be of some help.

Image
t-bar setup...( i should have moved it back a bit!)

Image
intergrated auto lights into dash.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
is the box and engine combo any longer then the 1.3L, if so does the chassis need extending?
Author:  lump_a_charcoal [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
This should be in the bible at O/L.
Nice work Joe!
Author:  royce [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
Fuck OL, It will be in the tech section on Auszookers when Joe is finished :wink:

what is the signal from the engine ECU Joe? like a load signal?
Author:  lump_a_charcoal [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
Auszookers has tech?
Author:  Brett [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
do you need a body lift to fit these boxs.
Author:  royce [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
lump_a_charcoal wrote:
Auszookers has tech?


http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?name=News&topic=2
Author:  joeblow [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
royce wrote:
Fuck OL, It will be in the tech section on Auszookers when Joe is finished :wink:

what is the signal from the engine ECU Joe? like a load signal?


yeah, they don't deserve the info i have....too many pretend cooks in that kitchen! the signal is a voltage signal, then converted to a duty cycle signal. i'll have tea then continue with more....mmm....foood....
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
come on you've had like a whole minute spill :P
Author:  joeblow [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
ok....more stuff...

THE FIT.
if you want it to be easier a 50mm body lift will be needed. not only for the fittment of the tranny, but the engine also. there are a couple of set-ups we run- auto and sierra case, or auto and dual cases( modified vit). either way the tunnel will have to be 'massaged'. i usually use a copper mallet to stretch the tunnel wider. by doing it this way you will get a neater finish. those who have early 1 litre bodies will have to stretch a little more. if you want to run the t-bar cover and have it all look shmick then you have to cut the top of the tunnel at the same level as the transfer boot. this will seat the shifter in the nicest spot and when the cover is on will almost look factory.

RUNNING JUST THE AUTO.
if you want to run the auto alone without dual cases you will not have to move the t/case at all, but, you will have to shorten the jackshaft and make a bearing support as the rear output of the auto relies on the t/case input as its support. the diagram below will show what i mean.
Image
you can still use the original crossmember but if you run a bit of lift etc you are much better off making a bolt on one to clear the front shaft better.

RUNNING THE AUTO AND DUALS.
with this setup you will have to massage the tunnel the same, but a little further down. myself and others in our group run this setup because it gives us 3 low-range sets to choose from, and not stuck with the 1 such as rockhopper, but this is a personal choice from years of experimenting. the choices are- standard low- standard high and vit low( a little lower than standard sierra)- and low low. this setup splits torque loading between boxes, much more reliable for both cases and mounts. i custom cut the vit cases to almost half the original length, and i had the same guys who make airlocker gears make me a bunch of splined output shafts....not cheap. this a time consuming setup but the rewards and reliabillaty are awesome. with 5.1 diff gears and 33's it gives you about 80:1 crawl...more than enough in the real world.you will have to move your sierra t/case back 70-80mm but the rear shaft will still be long enough, its not the angle of the shaft, but the alignment of the yokes. check out the pic below to see what the vit t/case clooks modified.
Image
Image
Image
how i made the new t/case mounts.

and for something a little different- this is a truck we are doing with a mate. rocky with lexus 4 speed auto and lexus v8!...
Image

will go into detail on how it drives soon.
Author:  lump_a_charcoal [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
wow!
Author:  antt [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
awesome tech joe. will be interested to hear your thoughts on how the auto's drive behind the zuk engines, i always thought they'd be a bit dull and slow being behind such a small engine.

and what is the deal with the jimny auto, is it really that crap?
Author:  Brett [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
i love that duel set up!

is the a 16v inlet manifold ports any different to a 8v head? i'm u dumb sierra driver. if not could you put a 16v inlet manifold on a 1.3? don't need a body lift for the engine and as far as i know lighter. then i would have a stock efi system to run some boost.
Author:  royce [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
yeah 16 valve are different
and its the manifold that needs the bodylift :)
Author:  cj_zuki [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
joeblow wrote:

IF YOU HAVE A JIMNY MOTOR AND ECU YOU ARE STUCK WITH USING THE HOPELESSLY UNRELIABLE JIMNY AUTO. THE ECU'S ARE INTERGRATED INTO ONE UNIT.



Not true :wink: some have seperate ecm's.

You can also bolt them up to Baleno G16B's and even Daihatsu Feroza's if you want.
Author:  joeblow [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
yes, my bad, was thinking of early model ones.
Author:  joeblow [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
ok...how does it drive?

well i must say i love it and would never go back to a manual in a 4x4. yes you will loose a little power but you won't notice much until loaded up, but you shouldn,t load a zook up too much anyway. the amount of benefits you gain offroad outweigh the slight loss of power on road. and the gearing is great. if your car is geared for the tyres you run, chuck the auto in L and off you go. we all run diff gears so not sure what t/case gears are like. 99% of the time going down hill i have to accelerate slightly, that will give you some idea. and the fact that i can stop and have a look at something then carry on without loosing traction....awesome. and i never have to do a clutch! you will love it but for the best results take your time with the conversion and do it right. the guys on the lerderderg trip will vouch for how well the auto performed. any other questions or bits for a conversion pm me, joe.
Author:  11_evl [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
will an after market ecu work using a pwm output??
what part/ function of the auto is being controlled by the duty cycle output of the factory ecu??
is the 4 speed that much better than the 3 speed??
Author:  tanshi [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
yeah yeah grave dig,

Joe do you have any interest in making these adapters to sell still?
Author:  twitchy [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
yep I still need to know what or how to do with the duty cycle bit Joe so I can make a choice where to go from there.
Is it for the TPS replacement??? :oops:

Can you run it as a manual type set up to avoid all the other wiring bullshit or not??????
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
yes you can set it up as a manual shift and run it with out the TCU at all if you want.
Author:  joeblow [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
tanshi wrote:
yes you can set it up as a manual shift and run it with out the TCU at all if you want.


the whole beauty and attraction of the aw4 is that you put it in, wire it up and off you go. hooking it up manualy sort of defeats the purpose of having this auto. and i don't think the vehicle would pass an engineers without running the tcu.

like i said a couple of posts up, its only the tps circuit that needs nutting out, once that is done it can be wired behind any engine.
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
I know you dont nessessarily want to do it that way. But he asked if you can, and you can so....
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
joeblow wrote:
tanshi wrote:
yes you can set it up as a manual shift and run it with out the TCU at all if you want.


the whole beauty and attraction of the aw4 is that you put it in, wire it up and off you go. hooking it up manualy sort of defeats the purpose of having this auto. and i don't think the vehicle would pass an engineers without running the tcu.

like i said a couple of posts up, its only the tps circuit that needs nutting out, once that is done it can be wired behind any engine.


Well if anyone knows what signals are required to the auto from the ECU i could probably have a crack at a stand alone unit.

Dan
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
this might give you more infor jrzook

http://radesignsproducts.com/aboutus.aspx
Author:  twitchy [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
I to have a mate that is a computer freak & a father in Law who is an electronics engineer....(But he is a wanker & not in Aus as yet)

So if I had it in moron I could tell them what I need.....lol.
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
tanshi wrote:
this might give you more infor jrzook

http://radesignsproducts.com/aboutus.aspx


Well if thats the case ie straight 12VDC signals to activate the solenoids, and a matrix of on-off states of these solenoids to determine the gear selection, a stand alone computer to control the auto-automatically :D shouldn't be too hard at all. It will need to inputs, most likely engine speed (RPM) and engine load either through a TPS or MAP sensor.

Is there any demand for such a project to be accomplished?

Dan
Author:  Fatzook [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
JrZook wrote:

Is there any demand for such a project to be accomplished?

Dan


I'm pretty sure Tanshi is going to attempt this. Perhaps a meeting of the minds? Could benifit a few people, as I know where there are 2 of these autos just sitting collecting dust :D
Author:  JrZook [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
Fatzook wrote:
JrZook wrote:

Is there any demand for such a project to be accomplished?

Dan


I'm pretty sure Tanshi is going to attemp this. Perhaps a meeting of the minds? Could benifit a few people, as I know wherte there are 2 of the autos just sitting collecting dust :D


Sounds good :wink:
Author:  twitchy [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 4 SPEED AUTO.
I'm keen on a set up to run it!!!!
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