[SuziBlu]

Got home, there was my 1.6l and my twin 40mm DCOE weber kit, have a few issues to resolve, cannot fit it this trip home, damit.

O, so I put the webers on the block, just to have a look n drool, in doing so, saw that there was a bit of difference to the inlet ports.

The 1.3l has 28.5mm inlet ports, the 1.6l has 31mm inlet ports, 16% larger. So the new manifold is getting milled out to 31mm DIA.

Also, the 1.3l has exhaust ports at 21 x 29mm (609mm2) the 1.6l has 23 X 33mm (759mm2) or 20% larger.

So as I see it, even tho the 1.3l inlet and outlet are the same bolt pattern, (am told that the manifolds are interchangeable) you should not use for instance, your 1.3l stuff on your new 1.6 as its not port matched.

Need to buy some Vitara extractors now.

[wolf_rt]

its not the end of the world having a 1.25mm step out into the port, the turbulence off the sharp edge can even help fuel atomisation...

having a smaller exhaust manifold than the port is a definite no-no though.

[SuziBlu]

Yea I agree, but, I am matching both.

Its actually 2.5mm not 1.5. The atomization will not differ, the mix will tho.

Will find out if there is a difference between the 1.3l extractors and the 1.6l, I sort of doubt it, but, will find out, if there is, I get the matched ports, if not, the expense of custom built would overwhelm the benefits gained I think.

What I wrote was just a heads up for those who believe, as I did, that the 1.3 and 1.6 heads were the same, they are not.

[royce]

SuziBlu wrote:

The atomization will not differ, the mix will tho.

Explain?

for the Exaggerators, the pipes wont blend to the flange in any form of niceness so just port the flange to the head and try and smooth some of the flange to pipe a bit

[SuziBlu]

Er, wtf are you trying to say Royce.

[SuziBlu]

In a fast moving fuel/air mix, IF the ports are of a difference size, the you may have a backup, a pressure wave, this should and must be avoided at ball costs.

If you are nor interested in the fine tuning, sweet, doesn't matter

[ajsr]

SuziBlu wrote:

In a fast moving fuel/air mix, IF the ports are of a difference size, the you may have a backup, a pressure wave, this should and must be avoided at ball costs.

If you are nor interested in the fine tuning, sweet, doesn't matter

why bring ball into this

[SuziBlu]

lol DOH, ALL darnit.

[SuziBlu]

Sorry Ball.

[MrRocky]

how can u say that port matching will not alter fuel atomisation when you are altering the flow characteristics and amount of the air entering the engine.

[wolf_rt]

SuziBlu wrote:

In a fast moving fuel/air mix, IF the ports are of a difference size, the you may have a backup, a pressure wave, this should and must be avoided at ball costs.

If you are nor interested in the fine tuning, sweet, doesn't matter

on the inlet side, a 1.25mm step all around the 'port' isn't going to do any harm... it may introduce a small pressure wave, that may be an issue if it was a race engine tuned for a particular rpm or something.
It will also increase atomisation efficiency if there is any liquid fuel sitting on the bottom of the manifold (ie.when cold), as it will 'shear' off back into the air stream.
you might see the peak torque figure move to a lower RPM by a fraction. that would be an effect of the size of the entire inlet manifold 'port' not anything to do with having a 'step' or not.

'port matching' will have precious little gains, if any, in this instance I think. if you have ever looked at a old holden 6 manifold and head, they often have 5-6mm step in some corners ect. which is worth cleaning up.

The exhaust is a different matter... if the exhaust manifold had smaller 'ports' than the head, the square edge would cause a big reversion wave, which would likely kill any exhaust scavenging the motor had.

[losfer]

with a mismatched intake port and carburettion you may get some pooling of fuel at the step , so a total atomisation wont happen. not so much important with efi where the spray is directly over the intake valve.

[jdk81]

The change in diam between the intake and intake port is effectively 29.7mm of extra pipe length to the intake.

To minimise losses and labour porting can be done this way, remove material where its red.

For those feeling lazy you wont notice the difference.

[wolf_rt]

why such a small radius on the exhaust 'step' jdk81? surely here the smoother the better?

[jdk81]

It doesnt really effect flow that much, as the boundary layer forms nicely and fluid can flow around it quite easily.
Consider a tear drop shape.
Smaller radius on leading edge, and long trailing tail.

Its the change form small diam to big diam which needs the work, this slow gradual change helpsto prevent flow serparation, which reduces losses.

I didnt calculate the Re, so we dont know the exact figures, but I may do at a later stage.

[Rhinoman]

I port matched my 1.3 intake to the 1.6 head, its not a very time consuming task. I cut the 1.3 gasket to match the 1.6 head and then used that as a template. I find it hard to believe that you could use a standard sized 1.3 intake and not lose power over one flowed to match the 1.6 ports. The 1.3 exhaust port was, surprisingly, almost an exact match for the 1.6 head despite the 1.6 having larger exhaust ports.

[ROAR99]

Rhinoman wrote:

I port matched my 1.3 intake to the 1.6 head, its not a very time consuming task. I cut the 1.3 gasket to match the 1.6 head and then used that as a template. I find it hard to believe that you could use a standard sized 1.3 intake and not lose power over one flowed to match the 1.6 ports. The 1.3 exhaust port was, surprisingly, almost an exact match for the 1.6 head despite the 1.6 having larger exhaust ports.

i done the same to mine,, u will also notice 2 of the ports have a alloy overhang near the face so grinding that down at the same time is a good idea.

exhaust side, i run 1.3 extractors with 1 3/4 primaries so there well big enuf, then took 2mill of all edges of extractor ports.
as rhinoman said some mighten think it makes much difference, but i reckon doin this would make it alot happyer and more fuel efficient engine..

[Rhinoman]

ROAR99 wrote:

i done the same to mine,, u will also notice 2 of the ports have a alloy overhang near the face so grinding that down at the same time is a good idea.

There is a water galley or something that protudes into the port, I smoothed it down a fair bit but I didn't remove it completely as I didn't know how thick the alloy was.

[atari4x4]

the other trick is to dowel the head, gasket & manifold after it's been match ported so they line up perfectly on the dowels instead of having the little bit of movement from the studs & holes.

[Rhinoman]

I'm sure that this must have been posted elsewhere but where did you get the twin 40 kit?

[SuziBlu]

The address is on my other computer which is at work, fly back tomorrow, but there is a set on ebay, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-Samurai-dual-40-DCOE-Weber-Carburetor-Kit-European-Weber-DCOE-included-/250975885319?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6f541807.

They look stunning.

[ROAR99]

Rhinoman wrote:

ROAR99 wrote:

i done the same to mine,, u will also notice 2 of the ports have a alloy overhang near the face so grinding that down at the same time is a good idea.

There is a water galley or something that protudes into the port, I smoothed it down a fair bit but I didn't remove it completely as I didn't know how thick the alloy was.

yeah ur right , probably should of worded that a bit better,
the small hole u see at the bottom of each port run up the side,
there is 5mm between this and the port so taking off 2mm which will smooth it out is fine.
then another 10mm between that and the water gallery.
i run a single webber so i also port matched the top of the manifold as the webber holes are heaps bigger..
tried it with webber,std manifold first, then ported manifold and there was a noticable difference.
however if runin std carby probly wouldnt be worth worrying about.

[SuziBlu]

I port matched the 32/36 on my 1.3, an like you, felt a noticeable diff.

I think people who use a vitara carb on a 1.3l inlet should consider this as well, free power up.

[Zook_Fan]

SuziBlu wrote:

The address is on my other computer which is at work, fly back tomorrow, but there is a set on ebay, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-Samurai-dual-40-DCOE-Weber-Carburetor-Kit-European-Weber-DCOE-included-/250975885319?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6f541807.

They look stunning.

Are yours jetted to suit the 1.6 or 1.3 like the link? Did you get stung import duties?

[SuziBlu]

Yes jetting and chocked for a 1.3lso for optimum performance they will need tuning, how much I dont know, prob buy a tuning kit, they go onto each throat individually and you tune with them.

The 32/36 can run on either a 1.3l or a 1.6, sort of a midway tune, rich for a 1.3.

No import duties on purchases under $1000 au

[ROAR99]

the plot thickens
(runin 1.6A with 1.3 manifolds)

i remember when porting my 1.3ba manifold to suit the webber only 2 of the inlet ports having overhang from the small gallerys on the inlet,
so i just went and checked a spare 1.3 manifold i had and it has overhang on all 4 ports..
so i cut it up and theres only about 2-3mm of clearence between gallery and port, so bugger all room to grind down..
add this to the smaller ports and a std 1.3 manifold would be highly restricted on a 1.6..
(so i think someone has put a 1.6 carby,manifold on my 1.3 before i got it.)

if u can make sense of all that u would be much better off using a 1.6 manifold portmatched with overhang takenoff..

[Zook_Fan]

SuziBlu wrote:

Yes jetting and chocked for a 1.3lso for optimum performance they will need tuning, how much I dont know, prob buy a tuning kit, they go onto each throat individually and you tune with them.

The 32/36 can run on either a 1.3l or a 1.6, sort of a midway tune, rich for a 1.3.

No import duties on purchases under $1000 au

Correct me if I'm wrong but $1296.95 is over $1000 last time I checked Or did you get them sent in two packages to bring the price down?

[SuziBlu]

I didn't get them off ebay, only pic i can put up, no idea how, so used the ebay advert.

The carbs in one box, the manifold and associated filters gaskets etc in a second.

[303zuke]

The Redline manifold is actually made in the UK. It doesn't necessarily mean that you will automatically find one cheaper there, and US post is always cheaper, but it will widen your seach for sources.

[SuziBlu]

I thought ozzy built manifolds.