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Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32308		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Deego [ Thu May 03, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
I know this might be a silly question but what is better for 4wding soft or hard shockers.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Thu May 03, 2012 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shock aborbers
soft for leaf hard for coil
Author:  just_cruizin [ Thu May 03, 2012 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
What type of 4wding, fast or slow
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu May 03, 2012 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
It is a bit of a silly question, because it's very difficult to answer.

Whilst got_bat_work's answer is correct, I don't think that's what you were asking.

I'm going to assume you were asking which is better if all other things are equal.

Basically, if you were only ever crawling and never bounced the car or carried any sort of speed, then you'd want soft damping. However, as speed increases there's more force acting on the car, and that means the body won't be well controlled, and the wheels will start to bounce, so you'll loose control and traction.

So, the effect of these two conflicting parameters means that even crawlers can't run very soft damping because the car gets too loose if you need to bounce the car up a ledge or something.

However, if the shocks are too stiff, the car will ride poorly and you'll loose traction because the tyres can't move fast enough to maintain contact with the ground.

So like most things, it's a balance.

The factory shock rates are generally pretty close to ideal. Most aftermarket shock absorbers designed for the application only vary 20% or so from factory valving.

Many years ago when I was younger and (even!) stupider than I am now, I bought adjustable RS9000 shocks for my Gwagen. For a while I thought I needed to soften the shocks when I went 4WDing, but I started to realise this was making the car worse to drive, in fact, just adjusting the rear shocks a stop would take the car from soft-but-ok to undriveable.

Steve.
Author:  alien [ Thu May 03, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
i run very stiff shocks in mine because my suspension is quite soft... if both were soft it'd wallow all over the place. Offroad this can mean i lift a wheel before it has a chance to droop if im going fast-ish, but if i use 1st low its not an issue.

without stiff shocks my zuk never would have passed engineering either (lane change test).
Author:  Bugsta [ Thu May 03, 2012 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
This is a question I am researching myself now to. I want a shock of a particular length but I just don't know what valving I want, as I don't yet understand the values. I have King springs which I think are super soft, (I do have the spring rate somewhere) and I think all my shocks are wrecked. I recently replaced the fronts but they have again been rendered useless very quickly by the spring and botton plate because the bottom mount is too close for the axle roll back. I am thinking a Bilstein 5100 series mounted upside down.

I am also thinking of trying some variable ratde springs, but can't find any for Jimny.
Author:  303zuke [ Thu May 03, 2012 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Gwagensteve wrote:
It is a bit of a silly question, because it's very difficult to answer.

Like most things, it's a balance.

Steve.


The shocks need to be valved to match the spring rate. Stiff springs need little shock absorbtion on the compression, because the spring will provide the resistance. On the rebound, the shock needs to provide a lot of control to counteract the spring returning to normal.

On springs with a low spring rate, the reverse is true. The shock needs to be valved to give high control on compression, but little resistance to extension, as the spring won't have sufficient rate to overcome the shock.

The major fault of shocks like the Rancho Adjustables is that they increase BOTH compression and rebound valving rates together, whereas they should be inversely adjusted.

So your question needs to be: What SPRING RATE is best for the TYPE OF 4WDING I PLAN TO DO?
Author:  monley [ Thu May 03, 2012 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Bugsta wrote:
This is a question I am researching myself now to. I want a shock of a particular length but I just don't know what valving I want, as I don't yet understand the values. I have King springs which I think are super soft, (I do have the spring rate somewhere) and I think all my shocks are wrecked. I recently replaced the fronts but they have again been rendered useless very quickly by the spring and botton plate because the bottom mount is too close for the axle roll back. I am thinking a Bilstein 5100 series mounted upside down.

I am also thinking of trying some variable ratde springs, but can't find any for Jimny.



What shocks are you running? :?
Author:  Bugsta [ Thu May 03, 2012 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Currently yellow Suzisport 2" on the back and Monroe GT Gas HQ rears on the front. A good extended length but I suspect the compressed length is too long
Author:  monley [ Thu May 03, 2012 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Bugsta wrote:
Currently yellow Suzisport 2" on the back and Monroe GT Gas HQ rears on the front. A good extended length but I suspect the compressed length is too long



Sound's like it. What's the open length? My rear's are 630mm open....

Sorry for the hi-jack :oops:
Author:  christover1 [ Thu May 03, 2012 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
A lot of shockers claim to be load sensitive, ie are soft at low speed and stiffen up at speed.
No idea of the truth to that, but it does sound like a good idea.
Author:  Bugsta [ Thu May 03, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
What makes it sounds like?
I don't know the rears butthe fronts I have (HQ Holden rears) are Ext. 497, Comp. 297.
Author:  zukenutter [ Fri May 04, 2012 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Bugsta wrote:
What makes it sounds like?
I don't know the rears butthe fronts I have (HQ Holden rears) are Ext. 497, Comp. 297.


I just measured a factory front, 285mm compressed and 360mm extended. So you've gained on the extension but lost compression using the HQ rears. Not necessarily a bad thing because you're running longer coils.
Author:  Bugsta [ Fri May 04, 2012 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offroad shock absorbers .. hard or soft ?
Yes, and not significantly, only 12mm so I expect thats acceptable, and I also have 30mm spacers in fronts. I will have to do some garage flex tests to see what is actually happening. I can't yet find a complete Bilstein catalog to choose the exact setup I want. They all want you to select vehicle, but this doesn't help when I want upside down¿ or valving values for that matter.
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