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Trail tough Solid Axle Swap (SAS) Vitara kit.
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Author:  stocker [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Trail tough Solid Axle Swap (SAS) Vitara kit.
Hi guys and girls.

Just after some information / reviews on trail tough's trail slayer kit for the vitara's.

I have been thinking of SAS mine for a while

The information I'm after
-installation (difficulty)
-durability
-legality for Rego nsw


Thankya!
Author:  christover1 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Check if suitable for our right hand drive. Some USA things aren't.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
I would say it would be way to high to get passed in nsw
Author:  stocker [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
got_bar_work wrote:
I would say it would be way to high to get passed in nsw



any reason you couldn't run shorter springs?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Looking at the pics i dont think it can go much lower with out running out of uptravel
The links are low to get the hight
To drop it down to 4in lift i think ur links would be running up hill
I dont think threre would be much room in the front for the diff so they would have spaced the bump stops down a bit
Ive onlyseen pics so it might be possible but i think the guys tried to get it passed in cambera with out much luck
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Mmm... How do they run in willowglen challenge then? You have to be registered don't you?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Alot of comp trucks are regoed but never drive on the road
Author:  Daz7 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
You need to call an Engineer and have a chat. You'd be looking at passing the lane change and braking test to prove ADR compliance.
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Definitely a must. Talking to an engineer is paramount, and prior to buying the kit I will.

Any other thoughts or opinions on the kit itself???
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Whilst I reckon TT gear is very well thought out and of high quality, I think this kit doesn't really make all that much sense over here. I don't like the look of hilux axles under a vitara. They always look too narrow. Using spacers or offset to get the track width back out is ok, I guess, but it leads to whacky scrub radius. I'd be using cruiser, patrol or rover axles, none of which are readily available to the US market.

Other than that, I'm not rocking its height at all. TT's trail slayer kit for the sierra is insanely low, so I can only assume the vitara kit is the height it is to try and avoid wheelarch work.

If it was me, I'd run a radius arm front as it's so easy to package. I'd pick the whole lot out of a cruiser or rover. Same for the rear.

Other than those issues, it would all be engineer specific. Some don't seem to care about fabricated links etc, others are paranoid. The handling/braking stuff could be the difficult bit, I'm sure the actual kit won't be the problem.

Steve.
Author:  Maxx13 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
I have mine setup as low as practical,

The limiting factor would be the diff to sump clearance.

When i had the standard motor in and sat on the bump stops, the diff and the centre suspension arm were both touching the sump.

Instalation is quite easy.

You have to convert to right hand drive.

The kit is good..... for a starting point, needs to be adjusted and setup for personal use.

Getting it engineered is the big hurdle, Soon i'll be attempting the lane change and engineers report.

Rego rules differ state to state, you'd have to get the ok from an engineer.

Height is an issue.
I'm pretty sure i put measurements on my build for height comparisons.

Maxx
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Unless ur going to change motor or tc aswell ur still stuck with a small tire that works with the ifs anyway
Slap some hilux cv in and call it good and just drivr the thing
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
That's a good point got_bar_work. Road gearing is difficult to deal with with any tyre where the sold axle was going to be an advantage. In fact, I don't think the IFS is a disadvantage at all. It travels well, allows lots of droop with a low overall ride height, and allows for excellent high speed handling.

With some upgraded CV's, I can't see the point in swapping it out unless 35" + tyres were needed, and then all the driveline would need to be looked at.

Steve.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
The number one problem with the lwb vit is ramp over angle
There is realy nothing u can do about it
3in lift is about all u can do before u run out of downtravel
Even with 3in lift and 31 im always draging the chassis
Ive realised im stuck with it so im just going to just make a plastic skid from bull bar to rear tc crossmember
Then it can just slide over everything in stead of getting stuck on the crossmembers
What dont u like about the ifs
Author:  christover1 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
My skid plates made a huge difference Off Road
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
GBW - Pretty well you've got it in a nutshell, my vit is as big as its ever going to be, it bottoms out a lot, and is very slow, with hilux diffs I can look at better diff gears, better ROA, better flex out of the front and rear.

Gwagensteve - I have thought about the possibility of cruiser or perhaps patrol diffs as I agree that hilux diffs are quite narrow.

Personally I don't have too much of a problem with IFS, it does flex well for what it is. It's just gearing options that's killing me, I have thought about the undertaker drive. Etc, just weighing up pros and cons of each idea before I go ahead with anything

Ps. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it :)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
How much better gearing can you get with other diffs?

Hilux: 5.29
Cruiser: 4.1 (4.8?)
Patrol: 4.88
Rover: 4.7 (unless you go hypoid conversion and then... 5.29

And these are generally aftermarket ratios, so they may well be expensive. I don't believe you'd even detect the difference between 5.12 and 5.29, not after all the added weight of a SAS.

I would say that unless you plan on a whole driveline swap (at which point you'll still want reduction transfer gearing to get your crawl ratio down) you're not going to get a gearing improvement with a solid axle swap, unless you start getting into very exxy/weird stuff like 9" or Dana 5.83/6.5/7.17

I'd say your 5.12's give you plenty of gearing options. It's high range reduction in the transfer (rover, sierra) or lots of torque you need for better on road gearing with tall tyres.

Steve.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Swap to a sierra case and put some 33 under it
Its slow because the gearing sucks
add a few hundred kg of diffs and its going to realy suck
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
X2 on that.

A sierra case or an undertaker.

Undertaker if you already have transfer gearing in the vitara case.
Sierra transfer if you don't.

Both will fix your high range gearing issues without rebuilding the car from scratch.

Steve
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
I'm liking that idea.

So would it be a sierra transfer as well as the original vit transfer?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
I can't see any good reason. It's a much more complicated swap to keep the vitara transfer and you're left with a useless low range (stock vitara) AND a useless compound low that's undriveable.

The only proviso to this would be if you drive lots of sand and might want to keep a "tall" low range, but it's a lot of work unless you really need it.

Steve.
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
So forgive my wilful ignorance with sierras but I've never owned one.

The ones I know of are, 1.0L, WT,NT, and coily,

Not that I know the difference between them, strengths, weakness' etc, drop ratios of the transfers.
To be able to run 31's on standard high way gearing would be nice :-)
Is the low range a lot lower also?
Are you able to modify the transfer for high range 4wd engagement?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
U will need a wtcase with gears
Its the same as the vit u have 2h 4h 4l or mod it for 2l aswell
Author:  tanshi [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
by my calcs with 31s, the standard vit should be doing 2968.844
at 100 on 31s.

just dropping a wide track sierra case in will give you
4183.101 at the same speed on the same tyres


your lowrange will be pretty shit though, only about 40:1
Author:  tanshi [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
with 4.1 gears in a sierra case your gonna be doing 4600 at 100. but gives you a much better 70:1 low range
Author:  DarkHorse [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Vitara high range is 1:1, and low is still only 1.8ish. The Sierras all (I think?) have some reduction in high (around 1.4) and lower low range (2.3). If you go to a Sierra case with 6.5s for example the high range also drops to 1.7, so almost as low as the Vit stock lowrange.

Have a play with the calculator - you can punch in gearbox, transfer, underdrive, diff and tyre combinations and it'll give you speeds at certain RPM or vice-versa.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/metric_gears.html

A Sierra transfer instead of the Vit will give you a roughly 20% lower crawl speed, and 30% lower road speed for the same size tyre - you could run 37s and still be slightly lower geared than currently on 31s :lol:

BUT - some fab work required: divorced transfer means sealing off the gearbox output shaft, getting a jack shaft made up, and custom front and rear drive shafts, plus custom crossmember/mounts.

The Vit Rock Monsters are 4.24:1 low with no reduction in high (unfortunately :( ) but well over 50% reduction in crawl speed.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Dont for get u can do to 4.3. 4.6. 4.8 diff gears aswell
Use a hilux front shaft in rear cut a jack shaft down to suit
The manual dont need anything on the back as there is a bearing there
Custom front shaft
Build a new crossmember with rocktroy ring and skid built in
I would aim for around 3600 3800 in fith at 100kmh that would give u a bit to go to 33
Y did i get gears this sounds heaps better
Author:  stocker [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
Ok, I'm definitely not interested in transfer gears for the vit case... It's pointless for what I'm aiming to achieve.
33's are to big for the lift I'm running.

The object of all of this is better highway gearing.

The sierra Tcase is sounding better and better.

Yes I realise about the custom shafts / mounts, that sought of fab work I'm keen as mustard for.

I have heard of this sought of modification being done before. Has anyone else on this forum actually got it done?

if I'm going to run the divorced transfer, with decreased distance on the rear shaft, I would probably looking at double carden joints too, being that our vehicles aren't the longest of wheel bases.
Author:  shandy92 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
the rear shaft might be to short with the double carden joints, the rear shaft angle will be pretty decent because the sierra case output its offset and i think higher to. running a sierra case has been talked about a fair amount on here by myself/got_bar_work and i think darkhorse, there is a lot of custom fab work involved but i guess if you willing to go to a solid axle setup then fabrication isnt a problem.

if you have have a look on some us sites, you will find more info/pics of it been done.

-http://www.zukikrawlers.com/index.php
-http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=29565&highlight=samurai+case
-http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=38736&highlight=samurai+case

-http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content
-http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=112656.0
-http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/13-suzuki/

below shows the angle of the front shaft, prop shaft and some of the mounts. If the mounts are done correctly, then the shift will come through the same hole. (pic doesnt look like a vit, it is tho just with different rear diff)
Image

some more info on the slayer kit:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/1 ... -cons.html
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trail tough kit
^^ datsafrontshaft
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