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low mount winch left to right or upside down?
http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40060		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Ok let it first be said that i have never had a winch before.

Ive just gotten a runva from Dank and im hoping there will be some knowledge here that can help.

Im limited on space. I got a custom short drum winch so that i could even fit it in.
on the runva the the motor is on the drivers side of the car and is very long compared to the other end.
problem is that i have limited space due to the steering box on the driver side.

can i...
run it upside down
flip it around left to right
or similar even if i need to pull it down and move stuff around to make the brake work correctly etc.
Author:  just_cruizin [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
I can't think of a reason why the orientation would effect the operation
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
i just wondered about the brake working correctly etc
Author:  31zook [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
No idea, can you center mount the winch? Like under the passengers seat?
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
How does the brake work? If it's anything like the brake on any electric motor I've dealt with you could run it in zero gravity and it would still work!

Maybe if you're super worried, hook it up to something upside down and pull on the line.

The only thing I'd be looking at about spooling it out a different side or direction is whether it was designed to work better/haul more of a load in one direction however I really doubt it in this case.
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
packaging in the car is tough already. 1 battery under each seat.

i have space to cut it into the tube bar, but will fit better if i can run it with the motor on the PS side
Image
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
aparent its a screw cone brake, not sure how that works
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Nice looking radiator!

Scratched what I said because you beat me to the punch and I found this.
Still shouldn't be a problem because you can just spool it from the bottom instead though.

Just found this randomly through google.

BRAKE: All planetary winches are equipped with a directional sensitive automatic brake.
The brake requires that the wire rope be wound onto the drum in the correct direction to
operate properly. A Drum rotation label is located on the motor end drum support to help
identify proper rotation. When the wire rope is reeled in, the brake is not activated. When
reeling out under load, however, the brake slows the winch drum to an acceptable speed and
holds the load when the winch is shut off. The brake is usually located inside the winch
drum and dissipates heat through the drum and wire rope.
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Okay same place, just found this.

"2nd February 2011, 12:54 PM
Make sure that is NOT the case otherwise when you winch in then you are overpowering the brake as well and when you winch out there will be no brake effect.

The direction of rotation for the Drum should be clearly marked on the Winch. All you do is rotate the gearbox 90 degrees one way or the other for top or bottom access but top is preferably so you can get at it easier...(IE end result is the Clutch lever is either above or below with the winch bolted in place as appropriate)

My Tigerz11 winch is actually mounted upside down in the factory GU nissan bar. Basically flipped so that the gearbox is on the drivers side and the motor on the passenger side, that way the cable/rope is running in and out of the winch the correct way.

And good tip ET about free spooling the rope out."

So that sounds like they are doing it with no dramas. Just don't change the direction the rope/cable is wound on or you will cause issues.
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
um, that doesnt help because doesnt the rope have to be spooled so it pulls in at the bottom of the drum?
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Why would it need to be spooled from the bottom of the drum?

You want the rope to spool from between the winch and the mounting points don't you? This should still be acheivable because you could just mount it upside down or back to front or wherever and make sure your mounting brackets picked up the feet that were designed to take the load, that said you "should" be able to turn the thing around and then rotate the gearbox and motor till you still have it mounted with the mounting feet down but everything else where you want it, though then you would be spooling from the other side of the drum to the mounting feet.

I haven't mounted one yet but I'm just going to put it in front of the grille so there's no issues with space.
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
i dont want something hanging 200mm infront of the grill other wise i would have no issue with space.

i would have thought ideally having the rope spooling out in the bottom of the drum would make for less leverage on the mounting bolts.

moving the point where all the pressure is on the bolts 100mm higher doesnt sound like a good idea to me
Author:  Red89 [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
My mates winch ran fine on mine flipped left to right and sitting vertically.

Image
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
We are definitely agreeing on the having it spooling out between the winch and the mount. That's why I said if you make your mounts so that they pick up the bolts on the new top then it should be fine.

Essentially hang the winch upside down from the feet that it was designed to use from your winch mounts.

So your winch mounts are basically upside down as well, like if you made it so that it would fit in the bar, bolted the winch to it, flipped it over so the winch was where you wanted then welded it in.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
^^^ That is pulling from the top of the drum, definitely not ideal.

You definitely want the roping spooling from the bottom of the drum. You also want the winch to be "winching in" in the way it is suppose to from factory. The gearing is designed to have higher stress loads on the in side of the gears as winching out should never really have load on the reverse side of the gear.

So mounting it upside down will make it spool from the top of the drum - not what you want. Flipping it left to right will make it spool in when you are "powering out" - not what you want.
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
so what your saying is no it shouldnt be done zook_fan?
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
It shouldn't no. Plenty of people do and they get away with it so it can be done but it is far from ideal. I'd hate to see you go through making up a mount on that ute to have your custom winch fail and then have to rebuild another mount after buying a new gearbox for your winch.

If you want to narrow it further, what is the width of the gearbox and ratio of your unit? And what is the length of the motor? I've heard rumours that runva and warn have interchangeable parts and I've got a couple of warn motors and gearbox's here if that's something you'd like to look into? You might not gain much though
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
its 110:1 gearing. 8hp motor
i think its only a 120 mm drum now so smaller will make it useless
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Wow. Was not expecting those specs. I think I have just found what I want to run as my rear winch :lol: . I wasn't thinking cut the winch drum down further but trying a different gear box or a smaller but same hp motor but that's not possible with a 8hp motor or 110:1 gearing.
Author:  Teracis [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Did you lads pick up on what I was saying regarding mounting? It can definitely be done, the proper way, just upside down. If you're already making the mounts is the rope being ~100mm higher going to break your mounts off were you're attaching them any more than it originally would have? As in can you brace is up so you could mount it as I suggested?

Also that's not a great deal of line to have on the winch!
Author:  tanshi [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Im not going to need to do more than about 10 meter pulls. Ill have a long extension to reach ancor points and for a sub 800 dollar winch this thing is fast!
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
I get what you are saying Tim, but if you have it just upside down an extra 100mm is going add to the leverage on the bolts. It's not the worst case scenario but again it's not the best. Can you fit it in if you swing it so the mounting feet are facing the grill? And the fair lead is in between the mounting points?

Yes that is a fast winch for that money!
Author:  SierraDan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Is 110:1 and 8hp something one should aim to acquire?
Author:  dank [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Dan those specs are about perfect for a zook sized vehicle for single line pulling anything. you can go down to about 80odd:1 with a 6hp but might have to double line pull some things. I've currently got around 40odd:1 and it's stupid fast but have to double line pull most things so I'll be going back to a deeper ratio. I've managed to acquire all the warn planetary gearsets and Sun gears for the low mount winches to play with ratios.

but yeah you don't want to change the way the rope spools in so will have to run the winch off the top of the drum if motor is on passenger side.
Author:  elky [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
watch the drain holes, if you flip it then i would assume new drain holes are in order
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
dank wrote:
Dan those specs are about perfect for a zook sized vehicle for single line pulling anything. you can go down to about 80odd:1 with a 6hp but might have to double line pull some things. I've currently got around 40odd:1 and it's stupid fast but have to double line pull most things so I'll be going back to a deeper ratio. I've managed to acquire all the warn planetary gearsets and Sun gears for the low mount winches to play with ratios.

but yeah you don't want to change the way the rope spools in so will have to run the winch off the top of the drum if motor is on passenger side.


I love my 44:1 and I'm running 6hp with 24v so it's spinning twice as fast, in fact I'm going to 31:1 with a second motor when my build finishes up. Why do you want to slow it down? I can imagine it could suck for a technical winch but in that case you'll normally be doing a double line pull anyway and that will slow it up.

Are the warn planetaries available for purchase?
Author:  SierraDan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
I dont need the fastest winch in the world. I would prefer it to be faster than your average winch, but also less stressed (deeper gearing?)
For assist winching more than recovery.
Author:  just_cruizin [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Could you mount the winch upside down and have the plate at the top then unbolt the motor and rotate it 180 degrees so that it was mounted correct way up. That's what we saying isn't it that way the winch still spools between drum and mount but in this case is on top and the motor and controls are still accessible
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
That would relocate the drain holes as Elky mentioned but it would not help that the gearbox is still spinning the wrong way.
Author:  dank [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: low mount winch left to right or upside down?
Zook_Fan wrote:
dank wrote:
Dan those specs are about perfect for a zook sized vehicle for single line pulling anything. you can go down to about 80odd:1 with a 6hp but might have to double line pull some things. I've currently got around 40odd:1 and it's stupid fast but have to double line pull most things so I'll be going back to a deeper ratio. I've managed to acquire all the warn planetary gearsets and Sun gears for the low mount winches to play with ratios.

but yeah you don't want to change the way the rope spools in so will have to run the winch off the top of the drum if motor is on passenger side.


I love my 44:1 and I'm running 6hp with 24v so it's spinning twice as fast, in fact I'm going to 31:1 with a second motor when my build finishes up. Why do you want to slow it down? I can imagine it could suck for a technical winch but in that case you'll normally be doing a double line pull anyway and that will slow it up.

Are the warn planetaries available for purchase?


I'm only running 12v mate thats the difference. I'd stick with what I have if I went to 24v but I just want to stick with 12v. twin motors are an option but alot of expense for not much gain. anywhere between 80 and 115:1 is perfect for a fast recreational winch. I use my winch mainly for assisted driving but have found a few times where I've been skull dragging the zook through deep ruts that anything below that for single line pull isn't strong enough.

some warn planetaries are available for sale. I'll see if I can dig up the parts sheet I got a few years back it has all the ratios and part numbers.
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