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reliability vs possible capability
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Author:  shandy92 [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  reliability vs possible capability
Hi all,

Well I have got my swb vit to a stage where it seem to get me most of the places that I want to go even if it takes me a few attempts and be able to drive home without repairs needed.
At the moment im running 31" MT's, 40mm dobinson springs and struts in the front with 180sx springs and commo shocks with a 15mm spring spacer and 40mm bumpstops. Gv front diff, tranny gears and rear locker.

The thing is with only 40ish mm of sus lift my chassis height is still fairly low (not sure on exact height) and if I could gain any chassis clearance that would be great as I still find that I scrap on stuff and that extra lift would help get me down the track that little bit more, but if I go any higher the chance of popping a cv seems to increase drastically. I have all the bits required to do the job here: spring spacer 15/30mm, diff drop brackets, camber bolts, rear A frame spacer.

Another point would be that a little bit more height would help reduce my scrub at full lock.

It seems that everyone that goes down the route of fitting the above parts seem to be constantly popping cv's or is alwasy thinking that they might and I dont want to go down that path if I can avoid it. So let me know what you think, keep it the way it is or should I fit those bits and be aware of cv's.

To those that run the spacers or the calmini 3": give me your opinion and if you can trust ur rig that you will be able to make it out of the track without to much hassle.
Thanks
Mitch
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
There is no SAS option... :(

I'm Not a vit driver but:

I'd keep it the way it is as to me getting home is better 90% of the time. But thats just me, and here is why very quickly:

Even if you can repair it on the track, or can bum a tow, its still a drag for others you're with (and you).

How does the vit stack up to the cars you wheel with? If its on par maybe your group could find new terrain to 'break things up a bit', if you are below I could see why you'd be wanting to do moar to it.

This is probably lame advice though
Author:  DarkHorse [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Well my CV dramas with the old car were well publicised, but I still don't think they were the result of lift + diff drop etc... as illustrated by the fact that I did exactly the same mods to the new car.

While I can't claim to have tested the new setup exhaustively by any means I have had a couple of reasonable runs in it and where I would have assumed and expected the old car to blow a Cv instantly this one was fine.

That said, if you are happy with the capability of the car and how it performs now why would you tempt fate? I would, but that's because of the whole motivation behind me owning the car(s) - to learn and tinker and experiment and push the boundaries of both my own ability and the extent to which the car can be improved. You may not have that motivation, and may have other factors to consider, such as keeping it a reliable, dependable DD to get you to work on Monday...
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Thanks for the reply tho, i know what your saying and that is why i have not fitted the bits, ive had them for prob 12mnths.

Its hard to answer that 2nd bit because i wheel with a variety of guys. Obviously buggies are way over but then i wheel with a twin locked sierra and can drive 80% of what he does, then i have stockers to.
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Darkhorse- it seems that most people that tread the waters with 3" lift seem to have cv dramas. I understand your comment about that you would do it, but if i had enough people say that it would be worth the risk for the clearance then i would do it to.

So im not sure....
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
shandy92 wrote:
Thanks for the reply tho, i know what your saying and that is why i have not fitted the bits, ive had them for prob 12mnths.

Its hard to answer that 2nd bit because i wheel with a variety of guys. Obviously buggies are way over but then i wheel with a twin locked sierra and can drive 80% of what he does, then i have stockers to.


If you are really looking to challenge your terrain could you build a buggy? Sorry, I dunno budget or any other constraints.

Darkhorse, the way I look at mods is I'm not really pushing any boundaries, I simply do whats been tried, tested and done before over and over. Old mate Shandy knows the possible outcomes of his mods, and the payoff is conquering the next rock ledge, where the risk is breaking something and waiting on parts and cycling to work.

Not trying to be a pessimist though, I'd love to see the car go further.

Have you got alternative transport if you do break it? Then I think you could at least try :)
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Front locker and big tiers getting bound up is wat kills cv not lift
as long as u dont have more. droop then 40mm +wat ever ur diff drops are
and adjust ur steering stops u should be fine
i only do cv on ledges bigger then 1/2m high as the tire binds up before it climbs
i have twin sticks so i just drop it in 2wdlow. to pop the front up then back in to 4 low
Author:  sideways [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
How big are your diff drops? If you're only going another 30mm then surely the CV angles with be pretty much identical to what they are now.
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
At the moment i do a motorbike but couldnt pushy it to work as its to far.
Im not to sure on how much drop they have as i havent put them beside a std set.

GBW- what lift combo were you running in ur front end? And i would of thought that a locker would in a way reduce cv breakages because of the fact ur not needed to have so much wheel speed?
Author:  oohsam [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Funny how we're almost on the same thought process of our cars at about the same time.
I'm yet to pop a CV but the recent addition to my front locker is probably going to change that, and I'm not looking forward to it.

I've pondered the same thing, I only run 29's because I didn't want the hassle of rubbing with larger tyres. I'd love to run 31's but I dont want to body lift, and diff drop etc.
I also daily my Vitara, I can get to work on my motorbike or train it in if i damage it, so Its no big deal, the major drama is getting home, so we're in the same boat.

Half of me wants to leave it the way it is. After reading what you want, I have a timely solution for you.

Go the BL, and DiffDrop but do a stub axle conversion. That way if you blow a CV, it wont take you more than 20 mins to change track side. ..

I mentioned before, that I've been meaning to do a Stub Axle conversion but do not possess the required skill.

Not sure if my post helps at all.
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
oohsam- i already have a BL, i have thought about doing the stubby conversion but like you Im yet to do a cv. So doing that mod had never been a priority. I might look into it it not but sure i would go ahead with it.
Author:  oohsam [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Ah fair enough man.
i knew you had a BL, not sure why I said that lol....

see how you go , if you start popping cv's, then maybe look at it.
I know when I pop a cv, its gonna be the driver side, and im gonna be cursing.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
It helps when u lift a wheel but.hurts when u have heaps of traction.on both wheels like when trying to climb vert or undercut.ledge
i was runing around 3"lift 70 strut spacers and diff drop brackets so long the pinion clearenced the sump a bit when it loaded up
if u ran diff drop brackets and flip ur strut mount u should be right as long as u adjust ur steering stops . that's the most important thing.
because u don't have stops at the hub the more droop u have the more steering lock u can turn
that's wat kills cv
as for the rear a balljoint spacer really. fucks with as numbers
i was wandering y it would wheel hop and it was because i had a as over 200
c if u can get pete to make a rear link like tom had in his vit
Author:  bakerboy [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
You go well with the current setup mate, i'd keep it as is
Author:  Red89 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Do people still do the Lux CV conversion, is there any great benefit to it ?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
If we could get a kit we would
there is guys in the states running upto 39 on vits
Author:  Red89 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Whats involved with the kit ?
Author:  got_bar_work [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Fwh adaptors
brass bush for back of hub
cv adaptors
not much just need someone with lathe and mill
if some one did a plan it could be knocked out on a cnc pretty easy
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
got_bar_work wrote:
It helps when u lift a wheel but.hurts when u have heaps of traction.on both wheels like when trying to climb vert or undercut.ledge
i was runing around 3"lift 70 strut spacers and diff drop brackets so long the pinion clearenced the sump a bit when it loaded up
if u ran diff drop brackets and flip ur strut mount u should be right as long as u adjust ur steering stops . that's the most important thing.
because u don't have stops at the hub the more droop u have the more steering lock u can turn
that's wat kills cv
as for the rear a balljoint spacer really. fucks with as numbers
i was wandering y it would wheel hop and it was because i had a as over 200
c if u can get pete to make a rear link like tom had in his vit

Thanks for the reply mate, do I need to do the strut mount flip? or would i just have zero travel without it? I have already adjusted my steering stops a fair bit and possibly to much.

what do you mean "as for the rear a balljoint spacer really. fucks with as numbers......it was because i had a as over 200"
200 what?

Not to keen on lux cv's seems like a fair bit of work that I dont really want to have to go through.
Author:  Reubs [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
I voted for 'fit the extra bits', however:

If it were me I'd fit the diff drop brackets, a-arm spacer, camber bolts and a-arm spacer. I can't see how any of these is going to make your car less reliable considering you already have a small lift.

On my Vit, I fitted the diff-drop brackets, camber bolts and a-arm spacers when I only had 2" springs fitted, some Ironman struts and some longer Rancho rear shocks. The diff drop brackets will go a long way towards reducing CV angle, camber bolts were necessary and nearly needed full adjustment to get back into spec, and the a-arm spacer (offset type) rotated the pinion sufficiently to correct the incorrect uni-joint angle caused by the longer springs.

I played around with the front end taking a lot of measurements and decided against a strut flip. I also had some other longer coils also and did not fit these due to the huge CV angles I was able to get with the strut flip fitted.

I also have 12mm front and 38mm rear bumpstop extensions, and after the rear springs sagged on my trip to Perth I now have 30mm spacers on the rear.

Soon I will go higher, but for now the car is pretty reliable and drives well. I really can't see a CV popping out or breaking the drivetrain due to the current suspension setup.

IMO 31" tyres are another beast altogether though - they WILL cause breakages if driven hard simply due to increased rotating mass.
Author:  31zook [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
got_bar_work wrote:
Fwh adaptors
brass bush for back of hub
cv adaptors
not much just need someone with lathe and mill
if some one did a plan it could be knocked out on a cnc pretty easy


If someone brings me their Vit and all the parts I should be able to put it all together. Can't be that hard :lol:
Author:  alien [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Another vote for "Dont change it"... reliability is key. My entire sierra is built on that principle and its done pretty bloody well thus far.
Author:  Marko_SJ [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
alien wrote:
Another vote for "Dont change it"... reliability is key. My entire sierra is built on that principle and its done pretty bloody well thus far.


Yeah fixing them instead of using them sucks. :oops:

I've observed IFS CVs (lux and vitara) being changed a couple of times, and it put me off IFS. :no: But plenty of people fun them fine, just not my thing, 'cause I'm lazy.
Author:  shandy92 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Reubs- so you would fit the brackets and stuff and not the spring spacers? what advantage would this give me over what i have now?
I dont think i would ever be the guy that changes one out on the track, its not like a sierra where if it breaks then i risk loosing steering. I can just unlock the hubs and keep driving. Plus if im ever that remote i wouldnt be driving hard enough to break a CV.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
My 2c- put the drop brackets in. Less cv angle is always better than more. I can't comment on the overall height of your car, I don't know what your driving.

As for broken cvs not locking the steering up like a sierra, I thought so too, it's not the case. I saw a broken vitara cv jam steering up this year. I'd be pulling the broken one out ASAP.

Steve.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
31zook wrote:
got_bar_work wrote:
Fwh adaptors
brass bush for back of hub
cv adaptors
not much just need someone with lathe and mill
if some one did a plan it could be knocked out on a cnc pretty easy


If someone brings me their Vit and all the parts I should be able to put it all together. Can't be that hard :lol:

I can put my diff in my half cut chassis and bring it up if u want
We also need arms that push the wheel ouit and forward a inch to make room for the cv adaptors sv and gv will not need them
Author:  Mike_B [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Plenty of good input both ways so far. Another idea that hasn't been commented on in this thread is fitting bash-plates underneath. I know my Vit will run out of clearance at times, but I do not wish to go too much higher at this stage as it has be suitable for daily driving, at least with bash plates you won't do as much damage underneath, and as somebody else said in another thread, you can sometimes slide over instead of getting hung up, spose it depends on the type of terrain and type of driving you do.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
:lol:
Author:  shandy92 [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
Steve, alright so ill fit the diff drops. Really, i never thought it was possibly but have never thought about it to much so thats good to know. Would I get/have any advantage if i fitted the rear A frame spacer? its 50mm from memory.

Mike_B- thanks for the input but i have thought about them but i just think they will become more of a nuisance than anything....having to remove them every time you do an oil change or want to do any work on it.

Atari- any comments?
Author:  atari4x4 [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: reliability vs possible capability
never removed mine to do an oil change or change the gearbag/transfer juice.
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