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1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
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Author:  experament-u2 [ Fri May 02, 2014 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
I am upgrading the gearbox in my 97 Maruti ute to a 5 speed, I managed to get a 5 speed box to suit the F10a motor from a member on here. Only problem, when i compared the new 5speed clutch to my stock maruti clutch it is a little different.

Image
The 5 speed on the left and the stock Maruti on the right.

The clutch that came out of the 5 speed is the same diameter as the 1l clutch (180mm) but is 20 teeth spline. the stock clutch is only 18 teeth.
I have been unable to find a clutch that matches these strange dimensions, a 1l size with a 1.3 spline size.

Unfortunatly i know next to nothing about the box, i was told by the bloke it came out of a nt Maruti but i am guessing it has had the internals of a 1.3 5 speed dropped in, hence the 1.3 spline size. has anyone else encountered this? if not when doing the 1.3 5 speed internal conversion, what clutch is normaly used?
Author:  zooky08 [ Fri May 02, 2014 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
Dont no if it will work but is there enough room to put a 190mm 1.3l clutch plate inside the 1lt pressure plate?
Author:  experament-u2 [ Fri May 02, 2014 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
the 190mm clutch plate does not fit in the 180mm pessure plate, it just binds up :(
Author:  jonno_racing [ Fri May 02, 2014 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
I'm interested in knowing this also. Be the same clutch I have to use with 1.3 internals in a 1ltr box.
Will a 1.3fly bolt onto a f10a?
Author:  experament-u2 [ Fri May 02, 2014 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
I was thinking the same about a 1.3 flywheel, i am worried the extra 10mm will cause issues with the starter and maby the bell housing. Can anyone put up the measurements for a 1.3 flywheel?
Author:  Mickc [ Fri May 02, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
Sure late model wt maruti had factory 5spd.
Don't know what clutch plate it used but I doubt if diameter is 190.
Flywheel is restricted by bellhousing size.
Also might have problem with starter to ringear distanced.
1.3 is approx 255 to ringgear and 25/26 thick.
Author:  MrRocky [ Fri May 02, 2014 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
No maruti came with a 5spd behind a 1ltr nor is the bellhousing any different whatsoever to the 1.3 the are an identical box with different internals.
The only maruti that came with the 5spd is a g13bb (gypsy king) that is in later models that cannot be regoed even if imported. These are facts.
Author:  2stroker [ Fri May 02, 2014 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
MrRocky wrote:
No maruti came with a 5spd behind a 1ltr nor is the bellhousing any different whatsoever to the 1.3 the are an identical box with different internals.
The only maruti that came with the 5spd is a g13bb (gypsy king) that is in later models that cannot be regoed even if imported. These are facts.


Mate a 1 litre bell housing is definitely not the same as a 1300 bell housing otherwise everyone with a 1 litre would just bolt a 1300 5 speed behind it.

I have sold a few 1 litre 5 speeds that have come out of 1 litre Maruti's.
Author:  MrRocky [ Fri May 02, 2014 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
They are a hybrid box compiled from 1.3 internals and the maruti case which externally is identical to the 1.3 case obviously with the exception of the bellhousing pattern i mistyped my above comment apologies ;)
No maruti came standard fitted with a 5spd box mated to a 1ltr perhaps you have been lucky enough to pull out a box that the previous owner had made up. I fo believe it is possible to make one out of some carry models and the earlier 1ltr 4spd boxes butiam led yo believe this is alot harder than the maruti box hybrid.
The maruti box also wont fit in an early ( pre 90 ) lwb/swb 1ltr without modified crossmember possibly even tunnel as it uses the 1.3 mounting on the crossmember identical to the 1.3 mounting so when swapping to a 1.3/6 the standard sierra 5spd bolts straight up on the xmember.
Author:  experament-u2 [ Sat May 03, 2014 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
When making a hybrid case using the maruti box and 1.3 internals what clutch is used? Or is the 18 spline imput shaft (?) From the maruti internals combined with the 1.3 internals? If I can just swap the 18 spline over from my maruti box, I could just use the stock clutch. An easy fix
Author:  sideways [ Sat May 03, 2014 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
MrRocky wrote:
I fo believe it is possible to make one out of some carry models and the earlier 1ltr 4spd boxes butiam led yo believe this is alot harder than the maruti box hybrid. Not a 5 speed, you can build a 4 speed with slightly lower ratios though (3.4 first, iirc) .
The maruti box also wont fit in an early ( pre 90 ) lwb/swb 1ltr without modified crossmember possibly even tunnel as it uses the 1.3 mounting on the crossmember identical to the 1.3 mounting so when swapping to a 1.3/6 the standard sierra 5spd bolts straight up on the xmember.


Maruti gearbox is the same as 11/84 onwards SJ40 and (obviously) does fit. Earlier ones just need an adapter made up for the mount, no need to "modify" the crossmember. They fit in the tunnel, it's pretty tight though.

B̶e̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶a̶r̶u̶t̶i̶ ̶i̶n̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶a̶f̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶e̶r̶t̶a̶i̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶b̶u̶i̶l̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶r̶m̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶a̶p̶a̶r̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶!̶ ̶F̶i̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶1̶8̶ ̶s̶p̶l̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶1̶.̶3̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶u̶s̶t̶o̶m̶ ̶c̶l̶u̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶p̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶I̶'̶d̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶l̶u̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶u̶n̶t̶i̶l̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶.̶.̶.̶[edit see 303s post]


Whilst it's out, check if it's got the 0.795 or 0.864 5th gear.

2stroker. It sounds like you've done the conversion before? What have you used?
Author:  303zuke [ Sat May 03, 2014 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
The only factory F10A with a 5 speed box would be a SK410 Super Carry. These also used a 180mm clutch with a 18 spline centre hub Exedy or PBR should have a catalog listing for this, and I'm sure that there would be many Chinese/Thai/Indonesian aftermarket kits on the cheap as these are a popular vehicle in Asia.

You can replace the 20 spline 1.3 input shaft with the 1.0lt 18 spline item, they are interchangeable and have the same tooth count.
Author:  2stroker [ Sat May 03, 2014 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
There is a good write up by mrw82 on NBS that explains how they are done and I think Benchi has a write up on AZ from where he did his. I have sold a few on both sites, last one I sold to Makes for his LJ81
Author:  experament-u2 [ Sat May 03, 2014 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
Thanks 303, my plan tomorrow is to pull both gearboxes apart and swap imput shafts over. then i can run the stock 18 spline clutch.
Just a quick question, from what i can find the imput shafts just slip off. is it as easy as pulling boxes apart, then just slipping shaft off (no puller needed) swapping and re assembling??

http://johnny-inc.com/Samurai/TrannyReb ... tShaft.JPG
http://www.billjohn.com/articles/drivet ... ion032.jpg

I did find this write up that will help.
http://www.billjohn.com/articles/drivet ... tranny.htm
Author:  experament-u2 [ Sun May 04, 2014 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
I opened both boxes today and compared the impit shafts, to my relief both the 20 spline and 18 spline shafts just slide off the main shaft and are identicale number of teeth.
Image
the 20 spline is on teh left and teh 18 on teh right.

here is the diference in shafts between the 5 speed and 4 speed.
Image

so for other doing the 1.3 5 speed internals into the maruti box, you can use the stock 1.0 imput shaft so you can use stock clutches Armsup
Also i now have a maruti gearbox (minus the imput shaft) if anyone is interested in it for a conversion.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Mon May 05, 2014 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
Glad someone actually cleared that up for me!! Thanks!
Author:  Benchai [ Mon May 05, 2014 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
When I built my 5 speed using a 1L four speed and the internals of 1.3 5 speed, I had to use the input shaft from the
1L four speed as the 5 speed wouldn't fit the clutch plate.
The other issue I had was my 1L had a needle roller spigot bearing inside the back end of the crank.
Looking at the above pics, there is a difference with the length of the shaft where it goes into the spigot. I had to ream
out my flywheel and fit two 10 x 18 x 5 bearings in the centre of the flywheel. Since then I have been given a Maruti
1Lengine by 2troker and the spigot bearing is in the flywheel as in the 1.3L. Changing clutch soon and will use the
Maruti flywheel, but if you don't have a spigot in the 1L flywheel, the input shaft of the later 5 speed won't reach into the back of the crank.
Author:  experament-u2 [ Wed May 07, 2014 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
So gearbox is in, but now for the next problem i have run into.
Adjusting the clutch....
i have adjusted it so it drives and engages where i want it to but i have a sickning feeling the throw out bearing is staying in contact with the clutch plate :/
i get a bearing noise when the clutch is out , but disappears when pushed in. i have noticed the clutch arm is sitting forwards to. i am using a new clutch kit, plate, clutch and TO bearing with original cable.
Cable has no signs of wear.

anyone with sugestion?
Author:  303zuke [ Thu May 08, 2014 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
How was the bearing on the 18spl input gear? Did you re-use the old one?
Author:  experament-u2 [ Thu May 08, 2014 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.0l 5 speed, unusual clutch
Yes I used the old 18spline bearing, it was the sealed tyoe and was super smooth and quiet so in my naivety thought it would be fine.
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