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Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:24 pm 
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ooooh I like that idea! thanks frak :)

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:55 pm 
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So vet are you going to run a cooler? or a temp gauge of some sort?

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:21 pm 
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I don't like pan mounted gauges- the pan should contain the coolest fluid.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:57 pm 
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maybe get the gauge on top? due to heat rising should work?!

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Qthefun wrote:
So vet are you going to run a cooler? or a temp gauge of some sort?


Still deciding. I will eventually, its just a matter of when. For now I will just change the fluid 18,000kms early. I haven't been out much in the past couple weeks. When I start doing longer trips in the dunes I am sure I will need it, at the moment I do rest it when I feel I am being too harsh with her. I also don't know where I will mount it. If I could think of a reversible way to mount a gauge I might do sooner than later.

In fact when I bought the car I was thinking I will keep it stock for the first 20,000-30,000kms (or about half a year) and then start with the mods. Wanted that first run just in case anything was wrong from factory and to get to know the car as is, but really haven't started modding as it's also the wife's daily and she loves it as it is. I am currently on 22,000kms and really enjoy it. I bought it new as I wanted a reliable car in the garage instead of all my broken crap, also wanted something reasonably economical so just haven't started rolling that snowball. When I do I am sure trans cooler and gauge will be first on that list.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:40 pm 
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The issue i see with case temp on a tranny is it will lag the oil temp which is what you care about.. Conversely the water temp would lag the cylinder temp on the engine where it is the cylinder temp you care about.

Still better than no gauge at all though and no wty void problem that i can see.

It would be interesting to heat up the box with some driving and see whers the hot spots on the case ars though usi g an infrared spot meter or camera.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:37 am 
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Just my two cents worth but as a retired AT builder here in Aus the two main killers of auto transmissions are heat and water. Fit a big aftermarket cooler, fit a temp gauge on the inbound side of the cooler and change the fluid after long hard trips. As soon as you see dis-coloration in the oil dump it. Did I see 50c ambients where you are? Id be going 10,000km intervals max, like has already been said oil is way cheaper than a new tranny.

Oh and at Ford we never rejected a warranty claim because someone had fitted a cooler or been offroad, I suppose if the vehicle came in low on fluid because of leaks at the cooler or lines we may have but never really came up that I can remember. You'd get your ass fried in the media if you rejected a warranty claim based on a 4wd being used offroad as the cause of an issue and not warranting it.

Excluding extreme offroad or competition that is or things like flooded rivers etc. So long as you were following the owners manual with do's and do nots you were covered.

Just my opinion for what its worth

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:56 am 
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Sound advice there. It's a shame Suzuki don't have that opinion in relation to warranty though.

Steve.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:02 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
Sound advice there. It's a shame Suzuki don't have that opinion in relation to warranty though.

Steve.

Yeah I must admit the closest I ever got to warranty and a Suzuki was with a car 8 years old many years ago......lol

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:15 am 
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I think there are two conflicting problems with warranty. One is denying a claim and having a potentially grumpy customer. The other is metrics. The number of warranty claims form the basis of customer satisfaction figures, perceived reliability/reputation etc. I strongly believe that many (most?) manufacturers do their best to deny warranty where there is any scope to.

An excellent example would be 215 tyres- bring a jimny in on 215 tyres with a driveline fault and try and get warranty.

Steve.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:51 pm 
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so keep the 205/70R15 tyres and fit em before every service 8)

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:15 pm 
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And ensure that your car is clean when it goes to service, with no evidence of impact damage etc underneath.

Is it sad? should it be unnecessary? maybe, but anyone who thinks that driving offroad doesn't shorten the life of a vehicle (in comparison to a car driven on road)

Try and get warranty for a road car that's been track raced... it's the same logic - surely a road car is designed to drive around on tarmac, right?

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:13 pm 
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I am with Steve when it comes to warranty issues they will do whatever they can to avoid the cost. I have a deep distrust of dealerships in general. I think most of them are snakes and will lie and cheat for every last dollar. And the minute you push back will start playing by the rules for a while. Sometimes you have to push hard but they now the rules and if they think you are willing to fight they will do what is required by law but not a bit more.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Finally got off my ass to look in more detail at the current we up. I have "heard" the GCC spec cars had a trans cooler, they do not. Just the rad cooler, lines come from under the rad, both entry and return. Looks very easy to set up a reversible cooler should anything happen. I am thinking entry into rad, exit from rad to new cooler, exit from new cooler to stock exit from rad line. Hope that made sense. Should all fit under the stock plastic skid. It makes me feel comfortable as I am not adding many more points of failure.

As for the gauge I guess I could tap it after the stock rad cooler and before the new cooler. But will be adding another point of potential failure.

Also just visually checked and smelt the trans fluid and it looks fine.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:36 pm 
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I would have been VERY surprised if your car had more cooling the AU market cars.

I don't understand the rationale behind installing both coolers in parallel. The only justification I have heard is that it prevents the trans being "overcooled" which in a temperate climate it's not possible. The overcooling myth is perpetuated by people reading stuff posted by northern US and Canadian residents where winter ambient temps are far, far below freezing.

I want my trans to run cooler than the bottom tank of my radiator if possible. Depending on use and circumstances, the trans fluid will be being heated by the bottom tank of the radiator. Seems a bit silly.

If you have limited space for a large cooler then maybe keep the radiator heater *ahem* "cooler" hooked up. In my opinion it's a compromise though.


Steve.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
I would have been VERY surprised if your car had more cooling the AU market cars.

I don't understand the rationale behind installing both coolers in parallel. The only justification I have heard is that it prevents the trans being "overcooled" which in a temperate climate it's not possible. The overcooling myth is perpetuated by people reading stuff posted by northern US and Canadian residents where winter ambient temps are far, far below freezing.

I want my trans to run cooler than the bottom tank of my radiator if possible. Depending on use and circumstances, the trans fluid will be being heated by the bottom tank of the radiator. Seems a bit silly.

If you have limited space for a large cooler then maybe keep the radiator heater *ahem* "cooler" hooked up. In my opinion it's a compromise though.


Steve.


I give no cares for overcooling. I was thinking of running through the radiator cooler/heater first and then through the new cooler so not really sure if that would help with over cooling, in fact wouldn'tit make it worse?

Hmm so you think stick in the aftermarket item and completely disconnect the stock rad heater. I guess if you do that then you have the same possible failure points as stock. As for the gauge, cold side or cold side of the cooler fine?

Upon further other thinking, Maybe it is best to delete the rad cooler as it might slightly help with the radiator cooling efficiency not having 100deg fluid running through the end tanks?

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:52 pm 
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The myth of overcooling centres on the idea that if fluid runs through the bottom tank of the radiator then temps will be stablised somewhat - as in you'l'l always get the bottom tank of the radiator temp, minus whatever the cooler can do.

If it's -20˚ and the trans is at 0˚ and you're on the highway, going through the bottom tank of the radiator might help to keep the trans fluid warm enough to flow properly - lets say over 20˚ or something.

This isn't relevant in Australia or where you are.

Gauge should be as close as possible to where the hot fluid leaves the transmission. That's how you'll know how hot you're getting the trans. The sump receives fluid after it's cooled. That's why I don't like sump mounted gauges.

As to removing thermal load.,,, Sort of. If you're whacking a great big cooler on the front of the radiator the air reaching the radiator is now hotter than ambient. Swings and roundabouts, but I do understand that there should be a drop in coolant temp heading back to the motor if there isn't a hot coil of trans fluid in the nice cool bottom tank heating the coolant up.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
The myth of overcooling centres on the idea that if fluid runs through the bottom tank of the radiator then temps will be stablised somewhat - as in you'l'l always get the bottom tank of the radiator temp, minus whatever the cooler can do.

If it's -20˚ and the trans is at 0˚ and you're on the highway, going through the bottom tank of the radiator might help to keep the trans fluid warm enough to flow properly - lets say over 20˚ or something.

This isn't relevant in Australia or where you are.

Gauge should be as close as possible to where the hot fluid leaves the transmission. That's how you'll know how hot you're getting the trans. The sump receives fluid after it's cooled. That's why I don't like sump mounted gauges.

As to removing thermal load.,,, Sort of. If you're whacking a great big cooler on the front of the radiator the air reaching the radiator is now hotter than ambient. Swings and roundabouts, but I do understand that there should be a drop in coolant temp heading back to the motor if there isn't a hot coil of trans fluid in the nice cool bottom tank heating the coolant up.


Yeah, I was worried about the cooler adding engine temp because of that reason, so maybe removing the hot oil running through the rad might help a little negate that.

Gauge will go hot side of the cooler. That way I can get a reading at it leaves the trans at its hottest and everything can be reversible. Easy. Will install before summer, i.e. in a couple months.

Cheers for your help in deciding.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Plug a obd2 scan tool in and see if it reads trans temps. On my family car I use a scanguage2 to monitor trans temps.
Would supprise me if the Jimny doesn't have the same ability

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Running an air cooler without the stock rad cooler isnt a good idea. Maybe unless you have a designated electric fan fitted to the air cooler that runs flat out. Driving your Jimny in low range in sand etc with only the aux cooler, and hardly any ram air is good way to heat up your auto trans, not cool it. Running both the rad cooler and the aux air cooler give you the best of both worlds, and ensure your transmission is getting adequate cooling under high load/low speed conditions.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Also one quick note. I have used the method of both radiator and then an aux air transmission cooling when I have built street/strip auto transmissions (Turbo 350/700s) running anywhere from 2500 to 3500 RPM high stalls. Some driven in street cruises, where it is very slow going and sitting on stall for extended periods of time in some sections. Yet to have one transmission overheat. I can guarantee that if I only used an aux air cooler, I would have a heap of cooked transmissions. Go both coolers.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:00 pm 
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DC3PTIKON wrote:
Also one quick note. I have used the method of both radiator and then an aux air transmission cooling when I have built street/strip auto transmissions (Turbo 350/700s) running anywhere from 2500 to 3500 RPM high stalls. Some driven in street cruises, where it is very slow going and sitting on stall for extended periods of time in some sections. Yet to have one transmission overheat. I can guarantee that if I only used an aux air cooler, I would have a heap of cooked transmissions. Go both coolers.


Ok back to plan A it is then. I have an obd2 dongle too so I would prefer to run that through an app like torque instead of a gauge also if it does trans temp as then you get coolant data etc also.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:50 pm 
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My own experience contradicts this. According to that doctrine, my transmission should be a melted mess.

My transmission also frequently runs cooler than the bottom tank of my radiator.

I'll take the risk.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
My own experience contradicts this. According to that doctrine, my transmission should be a melted mess.


Do you have a worked V8 with a 3500rpm high stall torque convertor in your Suzuki? No. Looks like you missed the point. Without the radiator cooler also in the cooling circuit along with external cooler these transmissions would have failed. So the point is that the radiator cooler has its place in a auto transmissions cooling system, and does a good job at it in conjunction with the air cooler especially when at low air speed when the aux cooler is not doing much.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:46 am 
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I guess a trans designed for a 2tonne v8 luxo cruiser adapted to a little Suzuki is quite understressed.

Interesting opinions, appreciate them all. I havnt owned many auto cars in the past.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:37 am 
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The op doesn't have a high stall converter with a v8 either. I'm sure that combination needed all the cooling it can get.
An external cooler closely coupled to the radiator is being cooled by the engine fan. In the case of a viscous fan, heat the auto cooler is adding to the airflow through the radiator will result in more frequent viscous fan engagement.

Steve.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:51 am 
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Missing the point once again. I'm showing that having the rad cooler and plumbed in does a good job assisting the aux cooler at low ram air speed. Look at the whole post, not just parts.

Also look at any aux air cooler you buy and the manufacturer/installation manual will tell you to plumb it series with your radiator cooler. It's not just for fun, it's because it will remove more heat than just the aux air cooler alone.


Last edited by DC3PTIKON on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:57 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
My transmission also frequently runs cooler than the bottom tank of my radiator.


Steve, I've seen you use this line a few times. I would love to know how and under what conditions you take the temperature reading for both the bottom tank of your radiator, and your transmission fluid. Could you please explain?

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:04 am 
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I'd say the actual reason they say to plumb it in series would be liability.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:32 am 
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J--A--C--K wrote:
I'd say the actual reason they say to plumb it in series would be liability.


Yeah agreed, because it may overheat with just the air cooler. Cheers!

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