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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:42 am 
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A can assure you the bottom tank of my radiator runs at over 45 degrees. My trans spends a lot of time around that temp measured at the hot side of the trans.

My cooler is in still air as is my radiator. It is cooled by the thermo fans for the radiator. No separate fan.

Interesting that race applications don't use in radiator trans heaters. I guess they must just be ignorant.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:27 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
A can assure you the bottom tank of my radiator runs at over 45 degrees. My trans spends a lot of time around that temp measured at the hot side of the trans.

My cooler is in still air as is my radiator. It is cooled by the thermo fans for the radiator. No separate fan.

Interesting that race applications don't use in radiator trans heaters. I guess they must just be ignorant.


Measure the temps properly, assuring doesnt cut it. It would be good to see how you do it and the results.

I wouldn't say they are ignorant, they know what the are doing. A Jimny going 15-20kms per hour in low range at 4000rpm, and a race car with thermo fan cooled trans coolers going 100kmph+ and massive air flow is not a good comparison.

Maybe all the manufacturers that use the radiator auto coolers in their millions and millions of vehicles are ignorant, as they haven't caught on to your much better air only cooled system. Even prestige vehicles where cost isnt an issue, use radiator coolers. So production cost doesnt come into it. Liquid to liquid, it is the most efficient way to cool the transmission in everyday vehicles. Adding the aux air cooler is a great addition to the system.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:48 am 
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Well I do have a race car with a 4500rpm converter on a dirty big V8; I don't think that qualifies me as any more or any less of an expert for that reason alone.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:03 am 
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Cost and packaging is always, always, always and issue for production vehicles

How much experience do you have with auto Jimny's, AW-4s with aux cooling and temp gauges and off road use, specifically, d3ceptikon?

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:07 am 
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henno wrote:
Well I do have a race car with a 4500rpm converter on a dirty big V8; I don't think that qualifies me as any more or any less of an expert for that reason alone.


Did you build it from scratch yourself? If yes, I would suggest that you are more of an expert, if no then I would say nah. Sounds pretty reasonable doesnt it? Just having one doesn't mean much in technical terms.
I've have built a lot of auto transmissions in my time, so that's where I'm drawing my information from. Not just because I've driven an auto, changed the fluid or put a cooler on one.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:21 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
Cost and packaging is always, always, always and issue for production vehicles

How much experience do you have with auto Jimny's, AW-4s with aux cooling and temp gauges and off road use, specifically, d3ceptikon?


So Lexus will put a seat warmers to heat your butt cheeks and a hundred other extra unnecessary things in their 4WD V8, but they wont spend near $0 to add your 'only air cooled trans', delete the radiator cooler and make sure that their $$$$$$ auto transmission is adequately cooled? Ok........

I haven't worked on those particular transmissions, but I have 'driven' them. The principle is the same, running both coolers is the best of both worlds. Good cooling at low speed where most slip and heat is generated. And great cooling with both coolers at high speed/towing etc.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:36 am 
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DC3PTIKON wrote:
henno wrote:
Well I do have a race car with a 4500rpm converter on a dirty big V8; I don't think that qualifies me as any more or any less of an expert for that reason alone.


Did you build it from scratch yourself? If yes, I would suggest that you are more of an expert, if no then I would say nah. Sounds pretty reasonable doesnt it? Just having one doesn't mean much in technical terms.
I've have built a lot of auto transmissions in my time, so that's where I'm drawing my information from. Not just because I've driven an auto, changed the fluid or put a cooler on one.


I built the car but I paid JP Racing to build the auto, if that is what you are asking. I think we made the same point anyway: merely having those things does not make one an expert.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:39 am 
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henno wrote:
DC3PTIKON wrote:
henno wrote:
Well I do have a race car with a 4500rpm converter on a dirty big V8; I don't think that qualifies me as any more or any less of an expert for that reason alone.


Did you build it from scratch yourself? If yes, I would suggest that you are more of an expert, if no then I would say nah. Sounds pretty reasonable doesnt it? Just having one doesn't mean much in technical terms.
I've have built a lot of auto transmissions in my time, so that's where I'm drawing my information from. Not just because I've driven an auto, changed the fluid or put a cooler on one.


I built the car but I paid JP Racing to build the auto, if that is what you are asking. I think we made the same point anyway: merely having those things does not make one an expert.


Agreed Mate!


Even the best aux air cooler manufacturers say in the their installation manual that running only the air cooler by itself greatly reduces total cooling efficiency than running both the radiator and air cooler in series. Unless it's huge! But what would they know.......

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:50 am 
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So you don't have experience with setting up cooling and monitoring temperatures in the hot side of the transmission with either a jimny auto with a large external cooler or an aw-4 with a large external cooler.

Ok. Carry on disagreeing with everything I have to say about cooling these autos for off road use then.

I understand you have reasons for your position. My personal experience is different. My recommendations are based on best practice* and my personal experience. We're obviously going to have to disagree over this issue. The op can make whatever decision they like- so long as they run a temp gauge they can make their own decisions as to the benefits of the integrated transmission heater. My preference is to separate the cooling of both systems. I don't want my radiator adding heat to my auto, and vice versa. It's also the preference of Motorsport regardless of speed and where money isn't the primary motivator.

Yes I am aware that liquid to liquid heat exchangers are more efficient. That cuts both ways though.

I'm not going to debate your logic over "ramming" air through a radiator or "low speed cooling." Your logic is faulty, but this thread is far enough off track now that arguing that point with you is just going to add more junk to a needlessly long thread.

the critical point of this thread is you can't assume the factory cooling (or any cooling for that matter) is adequate for your use and a transmission temperature gauge is the only way to know this.

*where over cooling isn't a risk.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:10 pm 
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So being a qualified vehicle technician since 1997, working in a multiple franchise dealership for 16 years, building everything and including auto transmissions anywhere from Daihatsu Mira's to street/strip cars to 4WD's means I dont have the experience because I haven't put an 'air only' cooler and temp gauge on a Jimny or AW-4.....................Ha ok, sounds legit.

Vet - read through it all Mate and do what you feel is right.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Sadly, the quality of auto techs out there means no, that might not be enough.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
Sadly, the quality of auto techs out there means no, that might not be enough.


Not all are the same. And your technical background? Just in case Vet and others on here need some more info on the OP.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:04 pm 
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No automotive qualification at all. I think I have an adequate grasp of physics, mechanical principles and relevant experience for this thread on top of over 20 years of working on 4wd's and experience with the vehicles and transmissions being discussed.

I'm sure the readers of this thread can make their own mind up.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Interesting discussion.

Although its winter currently, I wouldn't be surprised if in summer the little jimny trans would get exposed to similar if not more stresses of a high stall v8. We are talking up to 50deg ambient temps, running through soft steep sand dunes for hours straight with even low range not having enough torque mid dune for some dunes. The TC is constantly slipping even on the flat soft sand. Hence why I started this thread.

TBH for the trails and wadi's I am not too concerned as the stress in those situations "feels" far less as I don't notice the TC continually loaded.

So far I always give it a bit of a rest if I feel I have been too harsh with it, airing on the side of caution, but I want to do some bigger longer trips that I know will stress the car.

Have to get the OBDII dongle on and see what the trans temps are like.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:37 pm 
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I do not believe transmission temperature is monitored as part of OBDII in a jimny. If it is, that's great.

Whether it is or not, it does not negate the importance of monitoring temperatures. I have seen 105C on a jimny auto on a cool night at highway speeds with a 10"X10" PWR stacked plate cooler front and centre. That's a very large cooler by any measure and far larger than a transmission of that size and car of that power should require. Temperature spikes alarmingly quickly once the converter unlocks.

Car had stock jimny gearing and tyres (but not stock jimny aerodynamics)

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:57 pm 
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The transmission fluid temperature can be seen through ODBII and scan tool. Fluid temp, solenoids, T/C lock, vehicle speed etc can all be viewed. The vehicle has a separate Trans Control Module.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:04 pm 
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That's very handy to know.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:16 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
I do not believe transmission temperature is monitored as part of OBDII in a jimny. If it is, that's great.

Whether it is or not, it does not negate the importance of monitoring temperatures. I have seen 105C on a jimny auto on a cool night at highway speeds with a 10"X10" PWR stacked plate cooler front and centre. That's a very large cooler by any measure and far larger than a transmission of that size and car of that power should require. Temperature spikes alarmingly quickly once the converter unlocks.

Car had stock jimny gearing and tyres (but not stock jimny aerodynamics)


That's a bit alraming considering I do 140kph on the highway in 45+ deg temps everyday.......

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:40 pm 
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My wagon has trans fluid cooled in the radiator like all other factory autos but also has a seperate trans cooler fitted by the factory that further cools the fluid after it leaves the radiator.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:21 am 
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If the jimny can keep the converter locked at those speeds I'm sure temps will be well under control. If the converter has to unlock to maintain those speeds though....

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
If the jimny can keep the converter locked at those speeds I'm sure temps will be well under control. If the converter has to unlock to maintain those speeds though....


It feels locked most of the time, but unlocks easy

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:27 pm 
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vet 180 wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:
If the jimny can keep the converter locked at those speeds I'm sure temps will be well under control. If the converter has to unlock to maintain those speeds though....


It feels locked most of the time, but unlocks easy


Maybe fitting a T/C lock switch might be the go if necessary.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:12 pm 
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You'd want to verify the strength of the TC lock solenoid before attempting this though. A broken lock solenoid is a substantial pain. Some transmissions (Patrol) seem to have very durable lock solenoids. Some (TH-180c used in USDM trackers/sidekicks, for example, have a very weak and failure prone lock solenoid.

If the solenoid fails you'll worsen the problem you were trying to solve.

Steve.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:54 pm 
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I don't have any issues with the trans lock feels good as apposed to the kia sportage I drove recently that would just drive me nuts as it always felt unlocked on the highway

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 am 
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vet 180 wrote:
I don't have any issues with the trans lock feels good as apposed to the kia sportage I drove recently that would just drive me nuts as it always felt unlocked on the highway


Yeah no use jumping the gun until temps are verified.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:47 pm 
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DC3PTIKON wrote:
The transmission fluid temperature can be seen through ODBII and scan tool. Fluid temp, solenoids, T/C lock, vehicle speed etc can all be viewed. The vehicle has a separate Trans Control Module.

Ok no idea what this is but can I get my hands on one and mount it somewhere?

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:52 pm 
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Qthefun wrote:
DC3PTIKON wrote:
The transmission fluid temperature can be seen through ODBII and scan tool. Fluid temp, solenoids, T/C lock, vehicle speed etc can all be viewed. The vehicle has a separate Trans Control Module.

Ok no idea what this is but can I get my hands on one and mount it somewhere?


What sort of mobile do you have? Android or Apple

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:55 pm 
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DC3PTIKON wrote:
vet 180 wrote:
I don't have any issues with the trans lock feels good as apposed to the kia sportage I drove recently that would just drive me nuts as it always felt unlocked on the highway


Yeah no use jumping the gun until temps are verified.


I'll bet my left nut that it's running hot... no temp gauge required. :wink:

vet 180 wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:
Whether it is or not, it does not negate the importance of monitoring temperatures. I have seen 105C on a jimny auto on a cool night at highway speeds with a 10"X10" PWR stacked plate cooler front and centre. That's a very large cooler by any measure and far larger than a transmission of that size and car of that power should require. Temperature spikes alarmingly quickly once the converter unlocks.

Car had stock jimny gearing and tyres (but not stock jimny aerodynamics)


That's a bit alraming considering I do 140kph on the highway in 45+ deg temps everyday.......

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Qthefun wrote:
DC3PTIKON wrote:
The transmission fluid temperature can be seen through ODBII and scan tool. Fluid temp, solenoids, T/C lock, vehicle speed etc can all be viewed. The vehicle has a separate Trans Control Module.

Ok no idea what this is but can I get my hands on one and mount it somewhere?


Just Google 'bluetooth ODB2 scan tool' and you'll come across a heap. You can then pair it to your phone. Download the supported app like 'Torque' or the like. Also make sure the app has all the current data you want to view. Some cheap or free ones only have the basic stuff like RPM, engine temp and speed. The nice one have just about all data viewable.

Or you can get a stand alone unit which can get expensive .

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:38 pm 
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atari4x4 wrote:
DC3PTIKON wrote:
vet 180 wrote:
I don't have any issues with the trans lock feels good as apposed to the kia sportage I drove recently that would just drive me nuts as it always felt unlocked on the highway


Yeah no use jumping the gun until temps are verified.


I'll bet my left nut that it's running hot... no temp gauge required. :wink:


Yeah agreed, but I'm a numbers Man and like to know what I'm working with! No guessing or hunches around here.

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