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1.6 sump
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Author:  MrRocky [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  1.6 sump

Anyone run a vitara/x-90/gv sump on there sierra 1.6 conversion.
Im presently wrecking a late model 1.6 vit with the crank angle sensor hole in the sump and looks to be very close to clearing the diff with a ruff setup in a sierra.
Would certainly be a better option than welding the sensor hole into the sump

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I would have thought it would clear. I have a Vitara sump in my car and it clears. I'm not quite full RUF wheelbase and I'm bumpstop spaced, but there's plenty of room - even with an airlocker fitting between the diff and the sump.

Steve.

Author:  losfer [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

its a better option if the sump is going very cheap

Author:  davemcgrath [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

MrRocky: did you decide to use the late model sump on your baleno conversion?
I started gathering parts for my conversion a couple of years ago and bought a cheap new X90 sump on Ebay.
It's the same profile as the Vit sump, and the crank position sensor attachment at the front.
I'd love to know as I'm hoping it will clear my diff, but I'm only running the Old Man Emu 40mm lift kit.

Author:  MrRocky [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Only way it fits is with 75mm bumpstops and rears up front spring swap.
Hits the diff otherwise

Author:  MrRocky [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Spose you could redrill the diff perches to move the diff forward 20mm but it would still be necessary to do the ruf springs

Author:  davemcgrath [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Thanks Mr Rocky.
Unfortunately I'm not planning to go RUF.
I currently run a 40mm suspension lift with 50mm bumpstop spacers and 235 x 75 x 15 tyres.
I'd like to go up to 31 x 9.5 or 31 x 10.5 tyres once my 4.9 gears are in though.
I'll have to look into the advantages of RUF and more bumpstop spacing.
Might allow me to avoid a body lift for the 31s but could be a problem for engineering cert.

Author:  MrRocky [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Then you will have to get the 1.3 sump modified to accomadate the baleno/x90 section with the crank angle sensor.
Some 1.3 g13bb convertable jimnys built in spain are rumoured to run a crank angle sensor sump that suits sierra diff location. However this avenue hasnt been pursued in oz as far as i know

Author:  davemcgrath [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I see, would be good to get the part number
Incidentally the Suzuki Alto sumps have a similar profile to the Sierra but I can't find one with a CAS provision.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I can't find anything online about the Spanish Santana Jimny CAS sumps.
I'm going to order some genuine parts from Makin Luby today so I'll ask them about it.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I'm ordering some parts, eg. Jimny water inlet pipe, Jimny inlet manifold gaskets etc from Makin Luby and wondering about the sump gasket. Is it a baleno sump gasket that will fit my soon to be constructed hybrid sump?

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

They don't run a gasket as far as I know

Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

No sump gasket on balenos

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

So did you guys seal your hybrid sump to the block with a gasket at all?

Author:  Blkfxx [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Use RTV

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Yep, just use the appropriate silicone.

Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I use black permatex oil resistant sealant.
Also an issue ive had and seen a few times is proximity of the crank sensor to the crank, if the sensor section isnt welded spot on it can cause the car to not start or pop and backfire. If this happens use a ball of bluetack on the end of the sensor to test proximity to crank and shave some plastic off the sensor so it sits deeper

Author:  epitam [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Hope it can help,
Here in israel we use 98-2002 suzuki grand vitara 1.6 sump, it has cranck sensor. And a 99 jimny inlet to make the baleno "bolt-on" fit on the samurai/sierra.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Author:  davemcgrath [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Hi Epitam,
Those Grand Vitara sumps will bolt on, and have a CAS provision, however; isn't the profile the same as a vitara sump?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure they are, so it's going to hit my diff unless I add more suspension lift with and more bumpstop spacing.
Thanks for the input though, would love to find an off the shelf solution to my problem.

Dave

Author:  davemcgrath [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Was finally going to head over to the workshop and have a go at creating the sierra/baleno hybrid sump.
There's a plasma cutter there, and a MIG welder.
I've never used either tool. What do you reckon are my chances of getting it right, no leaks, proper alignment etc?
I'm mindful if I do cut up both sumps and and end up destroying them, I'll be up for about 200-300 for 2 new sumps.

I ask because I was going to get the guy who owns the tools to do it and he said it was too fiddly and he's not confident.
He thinks I should pay a local engineer.

Author:  bumstein [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Have a go :)

Practice with the MIG first, use Gas and fluxless wire.. do spot welds, progressively getting closer together. Give it time to cool down, take your time.

Google vids on welding body panels, should give you some ideas

Author:  MrRocky [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

The all leak a little oil, even pro welders struggle to get a oilproof weld. Make sure to tack it in place on the motor to get clearances right.
If i were you id tack it up and take it to the best weld shop u can find to tig it. Will prob still weep a bit

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Mine doesn’t leak. But it was a time consuming and fiddly job.

Stay away from the plasma cutter- use 1mm cutting discs on a grinder.

Personally, i’d suggest it’s not a good project for a first time mig welder or infrequent fabricator.

I wouldn’t let an engineer near welding a sump. They’re engineers, not fabricators. If you mean a general engineering workshop, few could manage the thickness. A shop that does race, rod or aviation fabrication would be the best bet.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I like the idea of learning to weld, as I've got to do some other fabrication for this build and it's going to be too expensive paying others to do it.
I watched a few instructional videos on youtube and found this rather awesome tool for welding sheet metal:
http://www.eastwood.com/manual-perfect- ... -tool.html
Creates a valley that you can fill with weld and then grind back to smooth.
I'd imagine you could get a pretty oil tight join in this way.

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

A version of that tool is available from Hare and Forbes, and I intend to buy one, but I don’t think it would be much help for a sump due to the complex shape and tight access and need to create a flush join at the sealing face.

I’d consider going to a wreckers and pulling a couple of generic/random sumps and having a crack at grafting, say, a corner between two sumps before you attempt this.

You’ll also want a solid flat surface to clamp the 1.3 sump to so you can keep everything square.

I don’t have proper internet at the moment but I do have some photos of when I did the one in the trolley tug, I can try and find them.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Photos would be good if you still have them Steve.
If I can get them cheap enough I might do as you say and practice on other sumps first.
For creating the join, would you recommend butting the sump pieces hard up against each other, leaving a small gap or even overlapping each other?

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Initially I thought overlapping would provide the best chance of a good seal, however as I've learned welds on sheet metal are far stronger when they penetrate through to the other side.

Author:  MrRocky [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of doing this.
Guys that weld all day every day still struggle to get a good seal, ive welded 4/5 with a gasless mig its a pita (4yrs boily app) and the ones that i had done at welding shops weeped much the same.
I would be investigating the vit sumps with the crank sensor provision and modding the susp/diff clearance to suit.
It will be cheaper and less time consuming adding a bit of box tube to your bumpstops and a rear leaf up front.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

I will look into that Mr. Rocky.
I'm running a 40mm OME lift kit as is, with 50mm BS spacing for 235x75x15 tyres.
How much BS spacing are we talking to clear the GV sumps? I already have 50mm spacers in there.
As far new gear, to get setup for RUF I would still need to buy 2 rear springs as unfortunately I threw away the original rear springs when I upgraded.

Author:  davemcgrath [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1.6 sump

Ah, you already said 75mm

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