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telemeister
newbie
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:54 pm Posts: 4
Vehicle: suzuki swift
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:54 pm |
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Does anyone have any idea when the next release Jimny (2017?) might be expected? I seem to recall that the last one was towards the end of 2015.
Thanks
Steve
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14491 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:16 pm |
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Apparently Suzuki has approval to sell 100 jimnys a year, be prepared to spend at least $25k to own one
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14491 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:25 pm |
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:50 pm |
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Pretty interesting considering the replacement isn't due until 2019 - Suzuki plan to run the jimny a full 20 years to a 2019 build before releasing the MY20 ??? whatever...
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Gwagensteve
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 12752 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:33 am |
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What's the bet will be based on a transverse platform, IFS/IRS
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pete_79
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1571
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:38 pm |
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I love all the speculation that happens around the 'new' Jimny every couple of years.
First there was the hoo haa about the fact they didn't have airbags. That one got sorted.
Apparently it was all over when they didn't add ESC and stoped selling them in VIC, apparently that was going to be the last year they would be imported into Australia. But they kept on coming.
Then there was the whispers about the next generation that was to be released a couple of years ago. They where going to be a whole new model, blah, blah, blah. What did we get? The same Jimny with a new face and ESC fitted. And they still keep on coming.
Now this year it's side airbags. So that's it, the Jimny is finished.... Anyone wanna put some money on the 'new' model being exactly the same as the current one but with side airbags fitted?
I was guilty of jumping on the "they're going to make them all independent suspension and wreck them" bandwagon. But if you take a breath and look at the current Suzuki range, it would be a brave (or stupid) director to say; "let's send another vehicle to the market that is exactly like our Vitara, SX4, S-Cross and Ignis!"
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Gwagensteve
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 12752 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:11 pm |
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Well the Vitara, SX4, S-Cross and Ignis are all outselling the Jimny, so it would be a brave or stupid director to develop a new, unique, North/South 4WD platform for a tiny niche. Suzuki don't spend lots of money on new platform development compared to a big player like VW.
There would be a very strange business case for a light duty separate chassis/ live axle vehicle - a weaker case than it was 20 years ago when the jimny was being developed.
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14491 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:12 pm |
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2 million jimnys have been sold world wide while the biggest selling model (swift) has sold 4 million.
My money is on a beam axle jimny being around for a while yet
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:21 pm |
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I'd peg it to be based on the new Vitara platform personally, then just made more "rugged" so to speak.
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tanshi
az supporter
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:30 pm Posts: 7719 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:26 pm |
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Even jeep are going with independent suspension in the next wrangler. Why would suzuki be any different
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Gwagensteve
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 12752 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:38 pm |
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I don't think that's the case Tanshi, from the spy photos that are circulating.
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pete_79
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1571
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:07 pm |
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shep wrote: 2 million jimnys have been sold world wide while the biggest selling model (swift) has sold 4 million.
My money is on a beam axle jimny being around for a while yet The Swift hit 5 million in sales late 2016. Suzuki was the number 10 in all global car sales for 2014-2015. Looking at their annual report it's clear the India is the only reason they are up there in numbers. But even still, they out sold Volvo, Landrover, Porche, Renault, Jeep and many, many others by a long way. It's hard to get global numbers for every model to do a proper comparison, but the European figures are pretty clear. Last year was the first year of reports that include the new Vitara, so the sales numbers where (I believe) unsustainably high for that model. But even with the inflated sales numbers of the Vitara, the facts are that Jimnys still outsold the SX4 by almost 4 to 1 in Europe. Now here's a question for all those playing along at home; How many advertisements have you seen specifically for Jimnys in the last 18 years that they have been selling these cars in Australia? And I mean a specific add for Jimnys, not a 1 second grab in a general add for all Suzuki's. I know how many I've seen.... None, not one add ever for a Jimny. If you go on the Suzuki website you have to actually search for a Jimny, not one picture or even a mention of this model on the home page. Here have a look for yourself. But somehow they still managed to sell over 1,000 units in 2015. It's pretty clear that Suzuki corporation know their place in the automotive market, and that is the Ultra-Mini and Mini-Compact size range. The Grand Vitara is actually a bit of an oddity for them in my view. I believe we shouldn't expect any new models released (or old models that get replaced) to be any bigger then the new Vitara. So I stand by my earlier statement; the 'new' model that the media is saying will be released this year or next year will be exactly the same as the current model, just with side airbags. It will be replaced, that is inevitable, and it will be replaced with something completely different. The fact that it has lasted nearly 20 years says that there is still a market for these niche type vehicles, despite all of their down falls.
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pete_79
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1571
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:39 pm |
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tanshi wrote: Even jeep are going with independent suspension in the next wrangler. Why would suzuki be any different Perhaps a better analogy would have been the new Patrol (and calling the old one a Y61), seeing as that is actually all independent suspension. That is probably the best example of a manufacturer wanting to change the mentality of market, but realizing how much they'll loose if they completely stop production of one of their best selling models. No doubt Nissan wish the dumb consumer would realize how much better their new technology is and they can't wait for sales of the 'old' patrol to drop enough to stop production.
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:01 pm |
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Suzuki's official position way back in 2012 (or earlier?) was that offroad was no longer their pursuit. Pete_79 is correct in that suzuki intend to focus on compact and sub-compact road cars as their target demo. Yes, they still have to make Vitara because of the large market for SUV, however they have outwardly dismissed any desire to develop a "new sierra" multiple times. The Jimny under it's current platform is on it's last legs by every standpoint. A sad sign of things to come; though with track closures pretty much everywhere, cars are more and more reserved as merely a means of transportation, and to be looked at more like your fridge or dishwasher: An appliance to achieve a set task, not something to be enjoyed.
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vet 180
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 11:50 am Posts: 1243
Vehicle: Vitara 1994
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:42 pm |
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Chinese will buy the tooling and copy the jimny when it finishes
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:07 pm |
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Which is all good and well but ADRs won't allow it to be sold here anyway. Look at the Sierra / Gypsy.
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henno
I live here!
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 2439 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: Which one?
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:33 am |
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Perhaps in QLD. We do sell Cherries after all, and they are an abortion of a car.
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vet 180
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 11:50 am Posts: 1243
Vehicle: Vitara 1994
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:49 pm |
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pete_79 wrote: tanshi wrote: Even jeep are going with independent suspension in the next wrangler. Why would suzuki be any different Perhaps a better analogy would have been the new Patrol (and calling the old one a Y61), seeing as that is actually all independent suspension. That is probably the best example of a manufacturer wanting to change the mentality of market, but realizing how much they'll loose if they completely stop production of one of their best selling models. No doubt Nissan wish the dumb consumer would realize how much better their new technology is and they can't wait for sales of the 'old' patrol to drop enough to stop production. No offense intended here, but that is a very Australian bias opinion. The Y62 was a huge success, occupying 77% of the market and class it was aimed at. It was never intended for Australia or Europe, physical evidence of this can be seen from the very sloppy (by oem standards) RHD conversion. The truck was originally made for the middle east, where it has and still does dominate the market out selling the 200 series land cruiser 4-1. The reason it doesn't sell well in Australia is not due to IFS or IRS (in fact the stock suspension has very long travel and is more balanced than your live axle rear ifs front), or its offroad ability (I would put it against a 200 anyday, it's actually very capable off-road), or even the price (in Aus I have noticed it's priced rather well, in the middle east its nearly 3 times a new pajero), no the reason it doesn't sell in Australia well is because of no diesel option, simply because it was never intended for markets where diesel is a necessity. The car could be the same car with a cummins and it would sell like hotcakes in aus. Also the Y61 still sells new alongside the Y62 in the middle east, not because of poor sales of the Y62, but because the Y61 is a different class of car. It's not a large luxury SUV. That and the tooling and R&D is already done. I remember looking at the falcon in the early 2000's and when you exclude tooling and R&D costs to produce a new falcon it was $3700AUD, thats just materials and labour. getting back the most of tooling and R&D is the hard part, onces thats paid for your laughing. Thats the reason suzuki will just slap side airbags in and be done with it and continue selling the old jim.
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THE_DICTATOR
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:09 pm Posts: 140
Vehicle: Suzuki Jimny
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:00 pm |
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vet 180 wrote: pete_79 wrote: tanshi wrote: Even jeep are going with independent suspension in the next wrangler. Why would suzuki be any different Perhaps a better analogy would have been the new Patrol (and calling the old one a Y61), seeing as that is actually all independent suspension. That is probably the best example of a manufacturer wanting to change the mentality of market, but realizing how much they'll loose if they completely stop production of one of their best selling models. No doubt Nissan wish the dumb consumer would realize how much better their new technology is and they can't wait for sales of the 'old' patrol to drop enough to stop production. No offense intended here, but that is a very Australian bias opinion. The Y62 was a huge success, occupying 77% of the market and class it was aimed at. It was never intended for Australia or Europe, physical evidence of this can be seen from the very sloppy (by oem standards) RHD conversion. The truck was originally made for the middle east, where it has and still does dominate the market out selling the 200 series land cruiser 4-1. The reason it doesn't sell well in Australia is not due to IFS or IRS (in fact the stock suspension has very long travel and is more balanced than your live axle rear ifs front), or its offroad ability (I would put it against a 200 anyday, it's actually very capable off-road), or even the price (in Aus I have noticed it's priced rather well, in the middle east its nearly 3 times a new pajero), no the reason it doesn't sell in Australia well is because of no diesel option, simply because it was never intended for markets where diesel is a necessity. The car could be the same car with a cummins and it would sell like hotcakes in aus. Also the Y61 still sells new alongside the Y62 in the middle east, not because of poor sales of the Y62, but because the Y61 is a different class of car. It's not a large luxury SUV. That and the tooling and R&D is already done. I remember looking at the falcon in the early 2000's and when you exclude tooling and R&D costs to produce a new falcon it was $3700AUD, thats just materials and labour. getting back the most of tooling and R&D is the hard part, onces thats paid for your laughing. Thats the reason suzuki will just slap side airbags in and be done with it and continue selling the old jim. Pretty sure that if they just slapped NGV seats into it and tossed the rear seats away it would meet adrs.
_________________ hillbilly 2 wrote: And this ^^^^ clown is why auszookers will never be taken seriously
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Gwagensteve
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 12752 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:17 pm |
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People realise we get a mix of "developing" and "developed" market vehicles in Australia, yes?
The Y61 is (now) a developing market vehicle. It's cheap and rugged. We get the developing market hilux, the 79 series, the Fortuner is also a developing market model. There's others we don't get like the Toyota Kijang and the people-mover version of the APV.
These vehicles are more necessarily suitable/legal/refined enough for the developed world.
The Jimny is an example of a developing market vehicle. It will ultimately (shortly) be legislated out of existence. in the "developed" world, which our ADR's are aligning themselves with.
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pete_79
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1571
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:02 pm |
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vet 180 wrote: No offense intended here....
None taken. You make all valid points there, my comments where 100% only from the Aussie perspective and there was not a lot of passion behind them either to be honest.
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Marko_SJ
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:40 am Posts: 2977 Location: Darwin, NT
Vehicle: WT sierra, GU CRD
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:18 pm |
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vet 180 wrote: pete_79 wrote: tanshi wrote: Even jeep are going with independent suspension in the next wrangler. Why would suzuki be any different Perhaps a better analogy would have been the new Patrol (and calling the old one a Y61), seeing as that is actually all independent suspension. That is probably the best example of a manufacturer wanting to change the mentality of market, but realizing how much they'll loose if they completely stop production of one of their best selling models. No doubt Nissan wish the dumb consumer would realize how much better their new technology is and they can't wait for sales of the 'old' patrol to drop enough to stop production. No offense intended here, but that is a very Australian bias opinion. The Y62 was a huge success, occupying 77% of the market and class it was aimed at. It was never intended for Australia or Europe, physical evidence of this can be seen from the very sloppy (by oem standards) RHD conversion. The truck was originally made for the middle east, where it has and still does dominate the market out selling the 200 series land cruiser 4-1. The reason it doesn't sell well in Australia is not due to IFS or IRS (in fact the stock suspension has very long travel and is more balanced than your live axle rear ifs front), or its offroad ability (I would put it against a 200 anyday, it's actually very capable off-road), or even the price (in Aus I have noticed it's priced rather well, in the middle east its nearly 3 times a new pajero), no the reason it doesn't sell in Australia well is because of no diesel option, simply because it was never intended for markets where diesel is a necessity. The car could be the same car with a cummins and it would sell like hotcakes in aus. Also the Y61 still sells new alongside the Y62 in the middle east, not because of poor sales of the Y62, but because the Y61 is a different class of car. It's not a large luxury SUV. That and the tooling and R&D is already done. I remember looking at the falcon in the early 2000's and when you exclude tooling and R&D costs to produce a new falcon it was $3700AUD, thats just materials and labour. getting back the most of tooling and R&D is the hard part, onces thats paid for your laughing. Thats the reason suzuki will just slap side airbags in and be done with it and continue selling the old jim. IMO your assessment is bang on, on all counts.
_________________ I love ZD30. :)
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watermouse
az supporter
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 867
Vehicle: zook
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am |
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14491 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:22 am |
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watermouse wrote: It was always going to be the case, they are just to popular. They are nearly as popular as 150 series wagons in the NT.
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watermouse
az supporter
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 867
Vehicle: zook
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:31 am |
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Yes. The Jimny/Sierra is Suzuki's icon car. I think companies are now pretty wise to this marketing aspect. Look at Toyota through the 2000's when all they decided to build were corollas, camrys and hiluxes. Then they remake the 86 and everyone loves Toyota again whether they would buy one or not.
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Chop
az supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 6456 Location: Radelaide ofcourse!
Vehicle: Suzuki GV 03/ 2010 DDIS NGV
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:25 pm |
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BoomBoom4216
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:11 pm Posts: 18
Vehicle: Jimny Sierra 2006 M13A
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:19 pm |
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watermouse wrote: Then they remake the 86 and everyone loves Toyota again. Is the 86 even a Toyota? Subi engine and Chassis...
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watermouse
az supporter
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 867
Vehicle: zook
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:30 pm |
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Co-designed, after Toyota acquired 17% ownership of FHI/Subaru. I can't find the numbers for Australia but in the USA the badged 86 outsold the more expensive BRZ 2 to 1.
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alien
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 16343 Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:10 pm |
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The difference between the two lies in the interior tech and minor details - however the base Subaru is about $2k more expensive IIRC, and i believe Subaru dealerships generally don't carry much stock, so there's almost always a long wait on a Subaru versus a Toyota, which is generally at least in the country and not waiting in Japan.
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Mitchie
az supporter
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:15 pm Posts: 80 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: 85 LWB Sierra
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:53 am |
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