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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Any ideas?

J20 motor. As I accelerate the revs drop initially before climbing. Really annoying in a manual as I need to wait a a second or two before I release the clutch or the car stalls or stumbles.

Also happens stationary. If I poke the throttle quickly it just stumbles a bit rather than revving straight up. How can I improve the throttle response.

I'm thinking tps position setting?


Last edited by 30ONA on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:28 pm 
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What Octane fuel do you run? My J24 and M15 Suzukis respond noticeably better running 95/98.

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Last edited by greenzook89 on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Nah it's not that. I use at least 95.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Fuel pump dying maybe, give it a pressure check.
Or possibly tps ?

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm 
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How do I check fuel pressure.
Since symptoms I have,
New plugs, coil packs, fuel filter, air filter and cleaned throttle no changes. I hope not compression, I've heard that is a symptom but I only have 183k's.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:24 pm 
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30ONA wrote:
Nah it's not that. I use at least 95.


Just checking, you'd be surprised the amount of people that run 91 and think its fine.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:52 pm 
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With a gauge
Maybe see if u can swap out throttle body/tps assembly with wreckers or a member close by

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Mine does this when it decides to get a bit of air in the fuel pump... i have no idea how it gets in there and it's totally random. The pump gets a little noisy and after a while it goes away... but there's a period now and then where its literally DEAD below 2500rpm. It's like turbo lag beyond that when it suddenly comes to life.

If you figure it out post it here cos i'd love to know!!

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:27 am 
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I had a similar problem after I washed the car. I was told it was water in the coil packs. How do you know it's your fuel pump?

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:07 am 
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You dont unless you check pressure via a gauge
I had it happen on a jimny and went through absolutely everything else first

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:00 pm 
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30ONA wrote:
I had a similar problem after I washed the car. I was told it was water in the coil packs. How do you know it's your fuel pump?


Maybe you would like to re-read that thread & refresh your memory - you reported hesitation after washing the engine and/or driving in the wet - this time around you haven't.

Little details can make a big difference to the diagnosis.

Is this the same problem that remains unresolved?
Have the symptoms changed - back then you were pretty specific about the hesitation in the wet, we were never told it also happened in the dry?

What you're describing now is reminiscent of a blocked pump jet on a carbed engine - on EFI, the closest thing would be the throttle position sensor acting up.

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:55 pm 
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fordem wrote:
30ONA wrote:
I had a similar problem after I washed the car. I was told it was water in the coil packs. How do you know it's your fuel pump?


Maybe you would like to re-read that thread & refresh your memory - you reported hesitation after washing the engine and/or driving in the wet - this time around you haven't.

Little details can make a big difference to the diagnosis.

Is this the same problem that remains unresolved?
Have the symptoms changed - back then you were pretty specific about the hesitation in the wet, we were never told it also happened in the dry?

What you're describing now is reminiscent of a blocked pump jet on a carbed engine - on EFI, the closest thing would be the throttle position sensor acting up.


FORDEM, two issues, good memory though.

The old issue when wet was only noticed when recently wet and I pulled away in gear, initially moved off ok but then once I loaded up the motor more to accelerate almost a complete loss of power was experienced. What I was saying is that this seemed similar to to what Alien was describing when dead below 2500. This issues seems to have dissipated since applying dielectric grease to coil packs connectors and spark plugs connectors. This was suggested by a few people and I had to do it twice before it seemed to work. I guess the first time was not clean enough or enough grease.

The issue for this thread is that at all times when I accelerate, in gear or stationary, the revs drop before raising. I think I've had this since I bought the car but I'm getting more frustrated with it. I'm not sure if it's getting worst? When the card is dead cold after just starting it idles about 1400, if I poke the throttle the revs come up straight away. No hesitation. It seems only when idleing at the cold rpm it is present. Once the revs are up the car responds well.

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:12 pm 
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I want you to go back to the first post in this thread - read what you wrote there, and then come back to the post directly above this reply and read it - can you see the differences in the reported symptoms.

You're now describing a new problem, which whilst it may have been there before, has not previously been discussed - a hesitation that occurs coming off idle - and your symptoms keep changing - so when does the hesitation occur - all the time? only when cold? or not when cold?

For what it's worth, my J20A (which is OBDI, yours may or may not be) will come to up around 1800 rpm idle on a cold start, drop to perhaps 1400 within a few seconds and then as it warms gradually come down to the normal 750 idle - I have no idea how long that takes because more often than not, I'm rolling in under a minute - there is noticeably less "grunt" with the engine cold, but it is by no means undriveable - there is no hesitation or stumbling, it just doesn't pull as hard.

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:55 am 
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I'll put up a video.

https://youtu.be/v5jeQspgk4g

Warm engine, no accessories on.

Not as bad as I remember now that I look at the video. The first two were the worst. I'll try another video after a longer drive.

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:42 pm 
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I think I'll quit whilst I still have my sanity...

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:26 pm 
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It was suggested to me clean the air flow sensor. So I did with MAF cleaner. Also removed and cleaned everything up the the throttle body and sprayed all the associated electrical connectors too. Battery was disconnected for this.

Started up fine but fuel gauge was on empty and engine light came on. Fuel came up and is ok. Idle is now high and stumble is worse, engine light stays on.

New video.https://youtu.be/vSFCotXsEVs

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Full re-cap.

Ignore reference to hesitation when wet. My comment in that post was only referring to aliens post. The wet hesitation issue has not presented since applying dielectric grease to spark plugs and coils.

Original symptom for this post
Engine stumble at initial opening of the throttle. Most of the ignition system already replaced

It was suggested to me by my brother to check all vacuum hoses and clean MAF sensor with MAF sensor cleaner. The workshop manual dose list MAF as a possible cause of hesitation. The battery negative was disconnected when I cleaned the MAF sensor. At the time I also sprayed the connectors with CRC electrical connector on the air temp sensor, IACV, and TPS. Everything was then reconnected after drying for 10 min.
The car started fine but the idle was now up from 750 to 1000. This seems to have settled down after a day or two of driving. However the stumble is much more pronounced now. Refer to the video. https://youtu.be/vSFCotXsEVs
At the first start up the fuel gauge was on empty and the fuel light was on, even though it had a quarter tank. I assume this is because the power was disconnected. The engine light was also on and has stayed on. I can't extract the codes. I have only ever got them with a full scanner connected. No one is available at the moment who has one.
I checked the TPS as per the workshop manual and the readings are not in spec.
Workshop manual says 0.02-6K ohms. Mine is 0.45-5.18 when removed. When installed at closed throttle it reads 0.78K ohms. There is no adjustment on the TPS. On previous cars I've owned the TPS had sloted holes for adjustment. The resistance seemed to climb linearly with rotation of the sensor off the car. So only the bottom limit is out of spec.
If I induce a vacuum leak the stumble almost completely disappears. Not sure about this but thought I add in case it helps with the diagnosis.

Next step
Would love anyone to confirm to help me out. Check codes. possibly a faulty TPS. What seems strange is that the stumble was made worse by cleaning the MAF sensor and not touching the TPS. Could it be that the car and all sensors were wearing out together and adjusting slowly to compensate for one another? Then when I cleaned the MAF sensor this messed up the ecosystem so to speak? At this stage I'm not considering fuel pressure reg (which the workshop manual suggests is possible) because I haven't changed anything to do with the fuel or vac when the stumble got worse. I will be borrowing my brothers vac tester to check the regulator though. But as this has not been touched I don't know why this would be the problem.

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Sensors don’t wear out, nor do they “wear out together” nor are they an “ecosystem.” Sensors work within their specified range or not. EFI isn’t mystical, it doesn’t have shakra that needs aligning.

The “learning” you’ll hear about in relation to efi is almost entirely associated with light throttle operation where the system tunes itself based on O2 sensor readings.

The higher than specified minimum resistance for your TPS will be the cause of the high idle.

As you know, you need to pull the codes.

I suspect the problem is IAC or TPS related (or both) however a vacuum leak may well be the involved. Check for this with the car running by spraying starting ether around the manifold and hoses. If idle speed increases you’ve found the cause.

A large vacuum leak will mess with the iac and tps so it’s not surprising it eliminates the stumble.

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Thanks

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:21 pm 
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checked the intake pipe from airbox to throttle body for splits?

when you did the coil packs & probes, did you clean up the metal rods & springs inside the probes?

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:30 pm 
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atari4x4 wrote:
checked the intake pipe from airbox to throttle body for splits?

when you did the coil packs & probes, did you clean up the metal rods & springs inside the probes?

No splits. Coil packs and tubes are New and yes I did both ends of the tubes.

Found today I have a P0100 error. So looks like I have stuffed the MAF sensor with the cleaner. I think the tps sensor is the initial culprit of the hesitation. But in trying to rectify it I've cause a second issue.

Anyone got a tps and MAF sensor i can swap out to try? Or buy?

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:57 am 
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Curious... Why is the tps not adjustable. All it would need is slotted holes then I could improve the lower limit. Is it not as critical on these engines as other?

Has anyone elongated the holes to allow adjustment, it would only need a few mm? I could then get the low end down to 0.45K ohms. I guess I'd need to check it doesn't limit out with WOT before hitting the butterfly stopper. I might play with it when my new one arrives.

Looks like the MAF meter is cooked. No signal outputs when back probing it. Moral of the story don't clean the MAF sensor. Has this happened to anyone else?

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:25 pm 
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MAF sensor. Engine light off. We I'm never"cleaning" that again.

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:17 am 
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So. The dead spot is gone. Another new TPS installed. When the throttle was opening it was retarding the timing to 0. It drives like a new car.

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