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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:05 am
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Vehicle: 87 Samurai

Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:06 am 
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Years back, I changed out the transfer case gears in my 87 Samurai from oem to 4.9 gears.
I reassembled it using the same shims that were used with the oem gears. I did not check the input and output shaft free play when installing the gears, as outlined in the Low Range instructions.

http://blog.lowrangeoffroad.com/wp-cont ... ar-Kit.pdf

These instructions weren't even printed back then, lol.

When I drive it today, the TC has considerable noise during no-load conditions, particularly at lower engine rpms, like 2000 rpm and lower. It groans, and rumbles, but gets quieter with faster rpm and with acceleration / engine load. Under load it is not noisy, just when decelerating. The rumble is somewhat intermittent and cyclical, with short duration breaks in the noise of say 1/2 second or less. Presumably, this cyclical rumble is related to the rotation of the gears.

Is this TC noise "normal" samurai drivetrain noise? Or, is it a result of too much end play in the TC shafts?
I bought my samurai 11 years ago, drove it straight home and began the resto / tear down / build, so I don't remember what an un-molested zuk drivetrain sounds like, to compare it to.

The TC components are all in good shape and I also installed new bearings even though the originals only had 78K on them.

Thots please?

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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:45 am 
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My transfer has the same gears and has similar noises as you describe.
When installing mine I noticed there was a bit of play between the input and outputs so pulled it apart again to see what was going on.
The cut on the input gear is not the greatest and it floats on the counter gear. Even when pulling the input gear hard against the counter gear it still doesn’t mesh perfectly.

Image

It is a little noisy when coasting (not under load), but I’m comfortable now that I know what’s causing it and I just keep the oil changes up to it.

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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:30 pm
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:56 am 
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For interest sake, are these trail gear 4.9s or the japanese made sumo gear company?

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:05 am 
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Mine are Trail Gear.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:09 am 
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Thank you Pete, for your post and pics.

Well, there's no way of fixing Trail Gear's chincom quality-poor product.

Too bad that is the issue with your gears. It may be the same issue with mine too. I had bought my gears from Roadless Gear in the USA. I recall specifically asking them IF the gears were made in China, or Japan. I was told Japan. Apparently, they were available from both countries, and I wanted / purchased the Japanese-made gears. This was about 8 or 10 years ago. The rest of the TC pieces, bearings, and cross shaft I had bought separately. BTW, the Chinese made cross shaft I bought was so full of casting voids and flaws, I decided to re-use the oem one instead.
This is exactly why I steer clear of chincom junk...….grrrrr. Now I wonder which I got...…..

Did you measure the input / output play? Make the appropriate shim adjustments?

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:57 am 
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Reusing the original countershaft is an excellent way to make the transfer gears noisy. Every one I’ve removed from a transfer when installing gears has been galled or worn. They wear preferentially on one side/end which takes the gear contact out of square. The needle roller bearings on the countershaft are undersized. It’s one of the reasons the early SJ410 transfer is superior from a design perspective, as it uses large ball bearings to support this shaft.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:36 am 
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Spokerider wrote:
Thank you Pete, for your post and pics.

.....

Did you measure the input / output play? Make the appropriate shim adjustments?


No worries mate.
I didn’t measure the play, but it was enough to be noticeable, that’s why I had a proper look at what was going on.

I didn’t bother shimming it either. My Sierra is just for play (and doesn’t get used anywhere near enough) apart from 1 or 2 longer trips (about 600km all up) per year, it’s only about 10km from my house to the tracks where I drive the most.

On the first test drive with the gears I could only hear a very light noise only when off the power and coasting down hill. Otherwise they where perfect.

I had a mate with the same gears ask if I noticed a bit of noise when crawling on things like rocky creek beds, as his newly installed 4.9s did. At that time mine where still fine, but now after maybe 5,000km I have started to notice a little noise in this type of situation as well.

But again, it doesn’t bother me personally, I can hardly hear it over the noisy tappits, the rattling doors, the roll cage rubbing on the roof and the cracked seat track the has the most annoying constant high pitched squeak while driving around.... ;)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:55 am 
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Does anyone with Trail Gear 4.9s have a quiet operating transfer case. I am kicking myself now that I went Trail Gear over Sumo Gear Co. If the flaw is that big when they arrive I may contact LROR for a return/exchange. I want silent operation.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:36 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
Reusing the original countershaft is an excellent way to make the transfer gears noisy. Every one I’ve removed from a transfer when installing gears has been galled or worn. They wear preferentially on one side/end which takes the gear contact out of square. The needle roller bearings on the countershaft are undersized. It’s one of the reasons the early SJ410 transfer is superior from a design perspective, as it uses large ball bearings to support this shaft.



I don't recall the TC being this noisy [ as it is now ] when I brought the zuk home that day, 11 years ago.

How much wear could the cross shaft have with only 78K on it? I do recall inspecting it when deciding to re-use it....there was no obvious wear on it that I could see, but, I did not mic it for diameter / spec.....because I would not know what oem spec diameter would / should be anyway. The new china-made one was absolute JUNK! I could hardly believe that any zuk vendor would actually sell such junk.

I may be putting the oem gears back in. Debating it. If I can get quiet TC operation in doing so, it may just be the deciding factor to tip the scale in favor of going back.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:47 am 
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At 78k my guess is it shouldn’t be going back in.

I have literally never, ever seen one that didn’t require replacement.

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Do you guys have a source for oem zuk TC parts? Japanese-made cross shaft? Chinese made parts are not wanted.

Steve, I have a 410 transfer case that is kept as a spare, to be used if needed. Yes, it's physically smaller than the 413 TC, and has lower oem gearing than the 413 case.

What are your thots on the 410 TC durability in place of the 413 TC?

Thanks.

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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:30 pm
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:50 am 
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Spokerider wrote:
Do you guys have a source for oem zuk TC parts? Japanese-made cross shaft?


Try megazip.net

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 am 
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Thank you fordem

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