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g13bb injector problem
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Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  g13bb injector problem
We have just finished putting a G13bb into a sierra and are having some problems with it starting. I'm 99.99999% sure the wiring is correct. The issue we have is.
We turn the key the Fuel pump runs for 2 seconds as it should.

We crank the engine crank the engine and it just wont start.
we have rounded it down to the injectors not injecting fuel.
There is fuel at pressure in the fuel rail.
We have checked and its getting spark.

I guess my question is, does any one have any suggestions. It is possible that the ECU was a dud but i have now idea how to confirm this. It would be awesome if some one had a g13bb that they wouldnt mind unplugging the ECU from to help us with testing.
Author:  Scrawny [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Where are you?
Author:  89_tintop [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Are you getting a pulse at the injector plugs?? Use a noid light or led test light to check this.

How long has the engine sat for?? I have had some engines that have sat for a while that take quite a lot if turning over to start.

Have you tried "start ya bastard" to confirm that it will kick?
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
The motor is in Ipswich, i live in Brisbane though.

Thanks tin top good suggestions. any one else?
Author:  v.w.dave [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
have you checked your compression? If its all ok you need double check all your grounds. Check all the contacts for your ECU inputs. If they all check out, as already said usind a noid light see if the injectors are getting a pulse. If after that you still can't find a problem try start you bastard as a last resort to see if you have a fueling problem.
If you are still stumped I would get one of the Suzi vets in you area to come have a look at your wiring.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
has it got a factory immobilizer, what year was the donor vehicle?
Author:  Taff [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Is the timing set up correctly?

If you crank it over is there any fuel smell in the exhaust?
Author:  joeblow [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
if you are getting spark and have fuel pressure, and if you're timing is ok then do an injector test to see if it is pulsing. if it is then get a long 3/8 drive extension and using a small hammer tap the metal body of the injector while cranking the motor. this may free them up and is what happened to the lexus v8 i was working on recently.
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Have you, or anyone, messed with the TPS???

IF it's anything like the Vit it could be in unflood more (>=75% of throttle), in which case it wont start because it wont be injecting fuel. If that is the case and you test with a noid light it may look like the injector drivers in the ECU are blown. I'm not sure of the pinouts of the Jimny TPS but if you measure it's output voltage and it's 3.75v or greater (5v * 75%) then i'd say it's in unflood more, in which case you have a dud TPS, or need to calibrate it.
Author:  Highway-Star [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
OK, I've just been talking to the cars owner. This is what he said:

The injectors have been checked, they are OK
Fuel pressure is good in the fuel rail, 42psi.
The ECU has no pins for an immobiliser aparantly. Its an "early" G13bb ecu.
apparantly the TPS puts out different voltage depending on the throttle position, he didn't say what the voltage range was though...
Also, the spark is not consistant. has worked, and now its not.
Check engine light apparantly puts out a "12", which is apparantly everything is OK.
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Thanks aaron, was just gonna call him, but now dont need to :D
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Highway-Star wrote:
OK, I've just been talking to the cars owner. This is what he said:

The injectors have been checked, they are OK
Fuel pressure is good in the fuel rail, 42psi.
The ECU has no pins for an immobiliser aparantly. Its an "early" G13bb ecu.
apparantly the TPS puts out different voltage depending on the throttle position, he didn't say what the voltage range was though...
Also, the spark is not consistant. has worked, and now its not.
Check engine light apparantly puts out a "12", which is apparantly everything is OK.


Find out what voltage is coming out of the TPS?

Could be a spark problem though by the sounds of it. I'm sure some Jimny guys on here have had ignition pickup problems before???
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
the thing im concerned about most is that the ECU might be rooted.
Author:  Highway-Star [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Damo wrote:
Find out what voltage is coming out of the TPS?

Could be a spark problem though by the sounds of it. I'm sure some Jimny guys on here have had ignition pickup problems before???



0.22V - 4.4V

What do you mean by Ignition pickup problem? (they are coil pack, not dizzy).
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
This is why i wanted him to set up in the half chassis, then he would still have a car to drive when shit like this happens
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Highway-Star wrote:
Damo wrote:
Find out what voltage is coming out of the TPS?

Could be a spark problem though by the sounds of it. I'm sure some Jimny guys on here have had ignition pickup problems before???



0.22V - 4.4V

What do you mean by Ignition pickup problem? (they are coil pack, not dizzy).


What is the TPS voltage at idle? eg, with no throttle.

I know they are coil pack, the ignition pickup is a sensor which tells the ECU where the engine is in relation to TDC on no. 1 cyl. I am sure that these sensors die in Jimnys from time to time.
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
won't start so can't get a TPS reading at idle
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
tanshi wrote:
won't start so can't get a TPS reading at idle


Sorry, during cranking i meant. If it is in unflood mode the injectors will not fire.
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
ok cool, will have a look, cheers
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Cam or crank position sensor is the other thing I was trying to think of. The combination of the 2 sensors output is what the ECU needs to work out when to fire the coil packs. If either is stuffed then you're in trouble.

These threads are the ones that make me think this might be your problem:

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

YOU"RE WELCOME!!!!!!!!!1
Author:  tanshi [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
The jim motor only has a cam sensor, i.e no crank sensor.

but i get your point
Author:  Damo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
tanshi wrote:
The jim motor only has a cam sensor, i.e no crank sensor.

but i get your point


Cool that makes it easier.

Any idea how to get the codes out of the ECU? If it's a sensor fault it should be throwing a code.

Hurry up and read this Steknig :twisted: most of the time you can't shut the bastard up :roll: :lol:
Author:  89_tintop [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
How did he have the injectors tested?? On a bench? Flow tested?

Is the pulse to the injectors also cutting out? Or are they pulsing when vehicle is cranking?

I would say you have a spark problem and if the injector are cutting out as well then I would say a crank angle sensor fault..

But that (I would assume) would throw a code...
Author:  Highway-Star [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
OK guys, I've been helping the cars owner this evening, and we have some progress :D .

After adding an extra 'just incase' earth to the cam sensor, and fixing up some other wiring, we have got the engine "firing" as such. Its kicks and wants to run, but will not stay running. as soon as you take the key back to ig, instead of start, the engine stops :( .

89_tintop, I have a feeling that by tested injectors, he only meant they fire when a voltage was put accross them. They are definitly fueling, as we are getting a very strong overfueling smell from it. But they might not be operating correctly (atomisation or something :? ), this is now becoming the focus of our attention. If we do as Joe suggested, and tap the injectors whilst cranking it, the motor will run on a little bit longer, but then does not keep running (they don't have a metal body though, they are a poly).
Any more thoughts appreciated.

Thanks :)
Author:  89_tintop [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
had one do very similar to me.. keep tapping them and hopefully they will free up.

i would pay the $$ and get them cleaned and flow tested..

just to eliminate some things. start it on start ya bastard and see if you can keep it running by spraying it into the intake after it has kicked and is running

i guess you have tried starting it with accelerator open??
only saying this as some engines need to relearn idle after the battery has been disconneted.. had a subaru kick and fire but not run after disconnecting the battery held the pedal down slightly to keep it runing. then just drove it. turned a/c on and off..
Author:  Highway-Star [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Well it might be the injectors. As we got it running on some G16 injectors :D . Also had to change the high tension lead to #1 cylinder, as it was dud... (the original lead wasn't dud, as we had borrowed the coil packs from another motor, as an earlier step to eliminate). I think this might explain the inconsistent; we have spark, we don't have spark... etc

Will try getting it to run again with the original injectors tomorrow, and go from there.

Thanks to everyone for your replies

And for those in the know of this car, the auto seems to select gears correctly, and provide motion to the wheels :) haven't had it out of the shed yet though...
Author:  89_tintop [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
cool.. good to hear that it lives

it costs me 40 an injector to get tested, cleaned and the flow tested.

it is an overlooked thing and is surprising how much power you regain and how much better fuel economy becomes.

i wouldnt reccomend running the G16 injectors anymore, as the impendance may be different and cause damage to the ECU

its always a releif when you figure out the ltittle niggling problems
Author:  Highway-Star [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
89_tintop wrote:
cool.. good to hear that it lives

it costs me 40 an injector to get tested, cleaned and the flow tested.

it is an overlooked thing and is surprising how much power you regain and how much better fuel economy becomes.

i wouldnt reccomend running the G16 injectors anymore, as the impendance may be different and cause damage to the ECU

its always a releif when you figure out the ltittle niggling problems



Yeah, we only did it to try it, definitely not a long term thing!
Anyway, the owner of the G16 injectors might get upset :wink: :lol:
Its a massive relief to me, and its not even my car. The owner was thinking of just buying new injectors, but it would be unlikely that the injectors would be too far gone wouldn't it?
Author:  89_tintop [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
I very much doubt it that they would be gone.

The guy we use at work is really good at his job. I reccomend him to everyone. It's a pitty your not closer

I would price some new injectors .. Sometimes hey aren't as dear as you think
Author:  tanshi [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13bb injector problem
Yes the owner of the 1.6 injectors would be most upset, but then i suggested that on the weekend and he said it wouldnt be that. hehe

good to hear of progress.!!
and also stoked that i didnt sell him a broken gearbox.
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