[squibby]

Try Kreative Engineering South Windsor.

[Bennyzarb]

This sucks why carnt they make it you go to a 4x4 shop pick out a lift kit you want they install it and it's right and fine then just drive away

[Bennyzarb]

I didn't think you could even get a body lift passed

[abclarke]

Haha fun, need a pink slip soon and i wanted to put my body lift in this weekend

[BlueSuzy]

Bennyzarb wrote:

I didn't think you could even get a body lift passed

The next time you say something i want to see some good tech, that has been reasearched properly and not just some shit that you think.


For instance, A quick search for the VSCCS gives you the site for the RTA,(RMA) Which then gives you full details on what this is all about. No Rumours, No Bullshit.

Shit i have even posted this 3 times on here so people get the picture and real life rules.

The NEW VSCCS Does not change engineering adr rules in NSW. The rules applicable are the modifying rules from yr 2007. The New scheme changes 'Engineers' and how they practice for the better.

My Opinion:
More Engineers, Happier people because more are local, Much like a blue slip.
More competition between Engineers, Cheaper for the customer if they want the work.
More cars engineered on the roads because testing will be cheaper and worth engineering. Eg: instead of, ah, too much $, CBF which equals less dodgy cars on the road with 10" long extended shocks.

LOOK HERE: Q&A:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... cs_qa.html

[squibby]

My opinions:-

Less engineers (because there are less, no BS. Bulleten 1 - updated on 26th February actually) Numbers are slowly rising but nowhere near as many engineers as prior to the VCCS scheme.
Less engineers = more demand so more Expensive for the customer. Supply and demand. And yes it is more expensive, cost me over $800 and that was cheapest quote.
More engineered cars on the road - NO for reasons above.
Less dodgy cars on the road? - same as before, but since the law views any un-engineered modified vehicle as 'dodgey' then probably more 'dodgy' cars on the road from a legal point of view.

BUT, it's my opinion the new scheme is better. I like knowing my engineer has proper insurance and that my mods are registered electronically with the RTA, and that they were all tested properly. But you have to pay for that priveledge. Think you have the rose-tinted glasses on mate.

[BlueSuzy]

Half the engieers on that old list were retired or not operating/shut down from being dodgy. How many did you actually ring with your rose tinted phone?

[jdk81]

stocker wrote:

All these people blowing off the point I was trying to make so let me spell it clear.

I wish to cast my dismay at the cost, something which cost 400 dollars for a certificate like my bodylift. I just Got off the phone with the same engineer... I pretended to be someone else with an identical car etc...

The answer I got " due to rising costs with the rta to engineer a body lift will be 1200 Incl Gst".

Not only that let's clear up the grey areas. Why will one engineer approve. One thing And another won't

Riddle me this

Consider how much an experienced engineers time is worth. Consider how long he spent at uni, and how much time he has spent in the industry to gain that valuable experience.

Somewhere around $150/hr is what I would be expecting (some are worth more/less depending).
Remember they have insurance and other costs etc involved in giving you the engineer certificate.

It is possible he gave you that price, because he doesnt want your business (like tradies quote stupidly high because they dont want the job).

When was the last time you paid a tradie to do something.... how did you feel about the price then?

How many hours of the engineers time do you think something takes, as well as all the other costs.
If engineering certs cost $600 before, I suspect the engineer wasnt even calculating anything, and just using intuition.

Be happy you arent forced to do more vehilce handling testing i.e. steady state turns, steep steer, vehicle reliability as well as double lane change and brake testing.

And be happy the engineer isnt charging you to fully calculate all the mods you want done.

[BlueSuzy]

They just needed to be insured like a contractor, The engineers requirements of a cert 4, is not uni here. Its lame ol tafe.

[squibby]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Half the engieers on that old list were retired or not operating/shut down from being dodgy. How many did you actually ring with your rose tinted phone?

I'm sorry I disagreed - What would I know - oh wait a minute, yeah I just got my vehicle engineered under the new VCCS scheme last month! probably one of the first people to do so under the new scheme.

I just phoned up two garages and handed over my money to the first guy who would serve me regardless of the cost... no wait hang on a minute, I think I shopped around a bit first since I'm not a millionaire.

I travelled down to Sydney because I like wasting time and fuel, or maybe it's because i couldn't get anyone locally registered to the new scheme.

So you googled the RTA's website and read the spiel on the new scheme. good for you. I have actual experience of getting my vehcile VCCS engineered and handed over my hard earned cash to a very good engineer. Fact it, last year running up to my conversion I had two options in Newcastle. This year under new scheme I had to travel down to Sydney and pay a fair bit more.

True I got better service, but I still stand by my opinions above because they are based on experience not what the RTA website told me. Some engineeres were a bit hesitant to serve me BECAUSE of the new scheme. I don't know the reasons why, but I expect its probably for good reasons. Downside is you DO pay more and THERE IS less choice of engineers now. Anyone who dismisses that is just a bit of a spastic to be frank.

2 months in things might be changing as people warm to the new scheme, but i'll tell you now, late last year and early this year it made me very anxious after having just dropped an M18 lump into the Jimny having engineers tell you things are all changing and that they aren't continuing with the new scheme. Gets you even more butterflies in the stomach when VCCS engineers tell you they don't want to engineer your vehicle and that you might have to hire a test track etc to do brake tests and that you could never afford it. Not a nice feeling at all, but that was the reality I can tell you. After that lot, finding a guy in Sydney who had the tools to test everything and only wanted just over $800 was a good thing.

[BlueSuzy]

You have an engine conversion with stock everything else. Congrats on getting it passed with a free emissions test

I will have the joy of this soon as mine is in progress. The complete car is custom, every detail has to be enginnered so with the old system, more test would of had to be done, More $, So once mine is done, I will give you the details so you can compare it against an older build with the exact same design..Goodluck in finding that.

[squibby]

Good luck in finding what? what point are you making? How would more tests have had to be done with the old system?

[BlueSuzy]

New tests are in discretion of engineer. Old Scheme, Certain tests were in the books to prove a car has passed on a certain subject that the rta would accept(prob because they have no idea). Now, its up to the engineer and his testing and the rta is relying on his methods.

For instance, If you put 4doorvit front discs and larger calipers on a sierra. It needs to be engineered, but it shouldnt need the brake test on a racetrack,big$$, as its an instant upgrade with size and design.

With my sierra, The stock lwb sierra disc is solid, single piston caliper. Very similar to the Jimny which is heavier.

My Sierra has hilux diffs. With a hilux diff weighing <30kg more per diff, Designed for a larger heavier car to also suit to carry and stop large loads in the tray, The braking disc and calipers are a very large upgrade. 4piston, vented disc. Even with 35's, Which have been engineered on previous heavier stock hiluxs, the lighter suzuki will have a very big brake upgrade. This would of also been tested on other suzuki's with similar braking system, Which the engineer can then now use to compare and pass.

Also depends on engineer because they are all different to each other.

[BlueSuzy]

If you have the time, please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwk9Y-d6RC4

Bit of boring crap but it states what the engineers should be doing.

[squibby]

well maybe. Never was too familiar with the old scheme, but chatting to my engineer about the new scheme he was emphasizing the additional insurance premiums and that his paperwork and documentation had increased a lot, something thats going to phase older experienced engineers or mechanically minded people, so i'm not suprised a load just retired instead of bothering to get a grasp of the new documentaion.

I had a bit more then just an engine conversion, in the end 6 ADR's were affected by all my mods. So engineer has to List all the mods on the form he submits to the RTA. He has to find the affected ADR's and then read up on them and check that the vehcile still conforms. Then he lists the ADR's on the electronic modification form that he submits to the RTA. Conformance to some of those ADR's requires tests, so for me He had to perform or see evidence that a Brake test was done, an emmisions test done, Vehicle weighed on a weighbridge and a speedo calibration test. He has to document and record those tests. Then he has to update the vehicle details (for your rego documents) such GVM, engine numbers etc. So for me I had engine number and cc's and had the GVM increased due to the extra weight from all my modifications.

He then submits that to the RTA electronically and my Rego documents will automatically be renewed with 'MODIFIED VEHICLE' stamped on them somewhere. I reckon he probably spent just under a day on my vehicle judging by the inspection time and the emails I sent him before and after the inspection. So about $1000 a day is probably a good guide. Careful guys, make sure take loads of pictures of you mods as you do them especially fabrication work, the more you document yourself the less you have to pay the engineer. I guess you'll probably get a bit of economy by quantity if you needed a lot of mods doing.

That's my INFORMED advice, if anyone wants to ignore, be my guest, but don't flame people who are anxious about the new scheme, its not something to rush into or advise others on really. best to just share experiences, and that's mine. When you share yours I'll take you more seriously.

[Daz7]

Its not all that great at present. Whilst the RMS said a lot on Sunday, after calls placed with current VCSS engineers locally yesterday a lot are hesitant to approve anything because the rulings are still up in the air.

Lots of work to still be done on this one lads.

[BlueSuzy]

I can understand the engineers being all antsy before this new scheme came out. No one knew what was happening, and it has been changing every 6 months. And it will still change no doubt.

I have photos of every days progress.

My engineer has seen my car and is documented, next time i see him it will be running. So far it was 400 for 1st inspection. This was 4 months ago.

My engineer sounds like yours squibby, But is a different guy. Would of been nice to know he was doing engineering when i started as he is one of the closest for me, but he wasnt engineering at the time.

[squibby]

Yeah, I don't want to post too much about my engineer on here so i delteted my post, because people automatically tend to think you are recommending someone because they are slack or have the 'anything goes' attitude. This is absolutely NOT so for this engineer. If anyone wants to know more about who I used don't hesitate to pm me and I'll tell you my experiences. He's strict and fair, and specialises in axles and diffs and stuff I think, so a good bet for us zook owners. - And i'd like to add that my estimates of about $1000 a day is a generic guess for a small one-off one visit job like mine was, no idea what would be charged for long extended multiple visits by any engineer to be honest. Could be a lot cheaper for all I know, It's just good to bugest for the worst.

[Daz7]

BlueSuzy wrote:

I can understand the engineers being all antsy before this new scheme came out. No one knew what was happening, and it has been changing every 6 months. And it will still change no doubt.

I have photos of every days progress.

My engineer has seen my car and is documented, next time i see him it will be running. So far it was 400 for 1st inspection. This was 4 months ago.

My engineer sounds like yours squibby, But is a different guy. Would of been nice to know he was doing engineering when i started as he is one of the closest for me, but he wasnt engineering at the time.

If your changing axles etc... have you been advised of brake and lane change testing requirements by your engineer?

[BlueSuzy]

Not yet.

Im building it to pass before hand though just in case.

[squibby]

BlueSuzy wrote:

I can understand the engineers being all antsy before this new scheme came out. No one knew what was happening, and it has been changing every 6 months. And it will still change no doubt.

I have photos of every days progress.

My engineer has seen my car and is documented, next time i see him it will be running. So far it was 400 for 1st inspection. This was 4 months ago.

My engineer sounds like yours squibby, But is a different guy. Would of been nice to know he was doing engineering when i started as he is one of the closest for me, but he wasnt engineering at the time.

yeah just up the road, I noticed that. If you Google his website it sounds like just the thing for you, and you wouldn't upset your old engineer if you switched since you already paid him. But anyway, your engineer might be even better. who knows. This one was BUSY too, always a good sign.

Just on another subject about your brakes upgrades and axle upgrades - If you can get details from a reputable source about the GVM for the donor vehicles where the brakes and axles came from. It's going to make it easy for your engineer to document. Example- a Hilux will have a massively higher GVM then the Jimny, so if you have evidence of the actual GVM for the donor vehicle, you can compare it with what your vehicle weighed out at on the weighbride (which you will undoubtedly have to weigh your finished vehicle at the public weighbridge at Box hill for $20 ) and it will easily prove that the donor axles are MORE then adequate for the weight of your vehicle. Then do the same for the Brakes. Perhaps the engineer has access to the published GVM's for different vehicles, but worth chatting to him about. the more work you do, the less you'll pay.

[BlueSuzy]

I had one which was even closer, but he didnt want to help. 4"lift max incl tyre lift.. I don't think he is with the vsccs now, maybe he isnt accepted yet.

I would rather go through with my engineer atm, Seeing i started with him, money could be wasted with another 1st inspection. Its abit like changing bank loans

Sorry Squibby. I am just going through these new processes, and rules have been changing on me every 5 minutes. Gets alittle stressing. Especially if it changes to your rig being engineerable to not every 5 minutes. Some things that other people read and interpret are different to how i see things and what i've been told. The rta is meant to be a reliable site with road rules. You just don't know who to believe any more. Im still going to try and get mine passed under the old scheme, into the rta by the 19june. I bet there is a ton of fine print with the vsccs.

Details are easy to find, epecially tyre sizing and Gvm's, My GVM will also be upgraded due to diffs, this was the engineers question to me! before i asked him. He is experienced with 4wds so we'll see.

[squibby]

Mate some of the engineers stressed me out too, and thats what my little rant was all about at when I started this thread originally. Now some months later I'm a bit more informed, and it really is a case of finding the right engineer - mainly one who has the equipment to do the tests you need. The rules haven't changed really. if one engineer blows you off, it's probably because he hasn't got the equipment and he himself is a bit stressed about a particular mod you are proposing. Move on and find one who is confident. But yeah, you are going to need lots of money now to pursue this hobby, of that I am sure and that is a turn for the worse, although you are getting MORE for your money now in terms of peace of mind, insurance, and that you are legally ready to stand up for yourself if anyone ever questions your vehicle.

I for one witnessed my vehicle being tested. i was there and I saw it. If any insurance companies or coppers, or organisations question my vehicle they had better be prepared to take it all the way because I know i'm going to win legally eand embarass them.

[abclarke]

BlueSuzy wrote:

They just needed to be insured like a contractor, The engineers requirements of a cert 4, is not uni here. Its lame ol tafe.

Haha really? When ive finished my adv diploma then i should look into it

[BlueSuzy]

Yes i was very tempted. I don't have anything on paper with automotive experience though so they probably would look at mine.

Closest transport thing for me would be trains as i did my apprenticeship with them. http://www.plasser.com.au/en/start/index.htm


Chuck in your resume
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... cation.pdf

[abclarke]

Haha yeah im only a fitter, but atleast on my payslips and contract it says "Mechanical Engineer". Sounds fancy

[BlueSuzy]

abclarke wrote:

Haha yeah im only a fitter, but atleast on my payslips and contract it says "Mechanical Engineer". Sounds fancy

Ditto.

But if you walk into tafe saying your a mechancal engineer, and sit down in class, They are in a different league.

It work we are called Engineers

[abclarke]

Im really suprised how much having a trade helps doing this adv diploma course. We have alot of guys straight from school or some foreign people doing the same thing not knowing what a lathe or mill is. Kinda scary to think one day these could be the people designing bridges and high rise structures

I just thought, imagine the amount of PMs youd get making a thread saying "Look guys i got my VSCCS certification today!"

[sierrajim]

As a factual addition to a thread that seems to be going the way of "my mate's, unlcles, cousins, neighbours son told me"

NSW no longer abide by the agreement between states to accept reports that had been previously accepted in other states. So if you're looking at buying a vehicle from interstate you'll most liklely need to get it re-approved. Fawkers.

[yz1975]

So does anyone know if a vitara 1.6 motor in Sierra needs to be engineered in nsw?
Or is it still engineerable?
I'm looking at buying a 1.6 sierra from another state, can I just take it for a blue slip and play dumb?