[alien]

i've got 2 sets of doors actually, does that mean my opinion counts double?

[alien]

i still have them - i just put them in the back =) and i do have 2 sets - Andrew has the other ones at his place cos he's melting them for me.

as for 500hp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yth9KZ7x-Y

[neofitou]

Mud Muncher has flopped his a few times.

[GRPABT1]

drewmouli wrote:

alien wrote:

i've got 2 sets of doors actually, does that mean my opinion counts double?

Not when your driving at powerlines you dont saying you have 2 sets of doors is like me saying my jimny has 500hp but only when it rains

I'm selling a car with over 500hp right now if you're interested? lol

[Joe]

No wonder Royce doesn't bother coming on here anymore

The op was such a simple question and now it's just a thread with five pages of crap
Some people should grow up or just fuck off!!

[zukenutter]

Joe wrote:

No wonder Royce doesn't bother coming on here anymore

The op was such a simple question and now it's just a thread with five pages of crap
Some people should grow up or just fuck off!!

My thoughts too

[smiffkid]

^^^x2^^^

[Gwagensteve]

Far out this thread has become a mess.

For better or worse, I'm going to try and press on with my line that 80mm of spring lift might be too much for any car, but certainly a Jimny.

Have a look at this photo. (Thanks to Monley)



I'm hoping that Monley can provide some more context to this photo.

What springs are these? (80mm? more?)
What shocks are these? (the shocks supplied with the 80mm kit? something else?)
Is there anything "missing" or "not installed" in this photo? (like a bumpstop spacer)
Why is the spring spacer being used here? due to spring sag?
Was the car fully flexed up in this photo?

I'm aware that Monley used this photo as an example of the ills of caster bushes. And they may well be exacerbating the misalignment between the top and bottom of the spring, but that's not the (primary) problem I can see in this photo.

From what I can see, there is no way the axle could ever reach the bumpstop with this setup. I also reckon the shock would bottom before the axle met the bumpstop, but I can't be sure of that.

I'd be interested to see this setup with the springs pulled and fully compressed.

Bumpstops are critical to prevent springs binding and shocks bottoming. I guess if the springs bind before the shocks bottom then at least the shocks won't be damaged by over compression, but binding springs results in spring sag.

I hope Monley (or anyone else with an 80mm lift) can provide some context to this photo.

Please note I'm not slamming Monley's setup, but I'm just trying to get some context. There's plenty of crappy things going on with the suspension on my own car, but I built it, I know what they are, and I'm working on fixing them, but my car is far from a "bolt on" kit. I'm concerned that that photo might be a representation of an installed 80mm kit (or some combination of readily available, off the shelf parts such as the spring spacers) because it looks pretty fraught to me.

Steve

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Far out this thread has become a mess.



I'm hoping that Monley can provide some more context to this photo.

What springs are these? (80mm? more?) 80mm TD spring's, with a 40mm spacers due to spring sag from the bar and winch.
What shocks are these? (the shocks supplied with the 80mm kit? something else?) These shocks are a one of custom tough dog shock. They top out by 35mm (from memory) before it hit's the bump stop.
Is there anything "missing" or "not installed" in this photo? (like a bumpstop spacer) Bump stop is there, but the coil spacers won't allow the bump stop to make contact with the diff, the coil spacers also won't allow the shock to "top out" either
Why is the spring spacer being used here? due to spring sag? Sag.
Was the car fully flexed up in this photo? No, still had a bit of up travel to go, but it would take a lot of weight to fully compress the from suspension with the coil spacers in there.

Steve

My suspension is hardly a "off the self kit" now. The only thing left from the kit is the front coils, panhard rods and castor bushes.

The misalignment of the bump stop to the diff is caused by the coil spacer. The castor angle is 5.5deg out of factory specs, and the WB is about 12-14mm shorter than the factory wheel due to the lift, that's why the spring is so messed up there.

Castor corrected arm's would solve a few issues here A) The WB would return to stock, B) The spring would keep straight during all stage's of flexing C) The castor angle would return to factory specs.

I removed the coil spacer late last year just to see how the spring goes while flexing, on down travel it was great, but up-travel i could not get a proper judgment cus the tyre would jam up into the guard .

I will admit my front end needs some more attention, it drives like a boat and the coil will catch on the coil diff mount upon full droop

But, this thread is about the "of the shelf 80mm lift for the jimny" which is fine, the off the self kit doesn't have any of those issues i have

The 75mm Jimny Bit's lift is a much better designed, well thought out kit. Just thought i would add that in there

[Gwagensteve]

A note: " top out" conventionally means fully extended. "Bottom out" means fully compressed.

How much longer are your shocks than "stock" 80mm TD shocks? Id be really keen to know this. If you are 35mm off your bumpstop fully compressed, you need to account for 50% of the bumpstop's height as squish, +25mm. I reckon that means your shocks "need" a 100mm spacer to ensure they can't be damaged. Just because a product can be bought doesn't mean it's a good product.

anyway, that's an aside.

By your comments, you ARE using coil bind as a bumpstop. I'd be interested to know if that was happening before you added your spring spacer. I think it would be close. If so, then I reckon TD are using spring bind to move overall travel downwards and limit compression. This is the same thing Calmini do and I think it's retarded.

When you pulled the spacer and had guard contact, what sized tyre was that with? 235's? If that's the case, this reinforces that the 80mm kit isn't fitting a bigger tyre at all, and so I'd say an 80mm lift is pretty non-functional under those circumstances.

I know I'm giving a advice where its not requested here, but if I was running your car, I'd be loosing the coil spacer and putting the 40mm onto the bumpstop rather than the spring. You'd be able to run the same height tyre you have now at 40mm less height.

Steve.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

A note: " top out" conventionally means fully extended. "Bottom out" means fully compressed.

How much longer are your shocks than "stock" 80mm TD shocks? Id be really keen to know this. If you are 35mm off your bumpstop fully compressed, you need to account for 50% of the bumpstop's height as squish, +25mm. I reckon that means your shocks "need" a 100mm spacer to ensure they can't be damaged. Just because a product can be bought doesn't mean it's a good product.

anyway, that's an aside.

By your comments, you ARE using coil bind as a bumpstop. I'd be interested to know if that was happening before you added your spring spacer. I think it would be close. If so, then I reckon TD are using spring bind to move overall travel downwards and limit compression. This is the same thing Calmini do and I think it's retarded.

When you pulled the spacer and had guard contact, what sized tyre was that with? 235's? If that's the case, this reinforces that the 80mm kit isn't fitting a bigger tyre at all, and so I'd say an 80mm lift is pretty non-functional under those circumstances.

I know I'm giving a advice where its not requested here, but if I was running your car, I'd be loosing the coil spacer and putting the 40mm onto the bumpstop rather than the spring. You'd be able to run the same height tyre you have now at 40mm less height.

Steve.

I am using the coil spacer just to get the car to sit level - no other reason's. I hate the fuking things.

I was running 31's with-out the spacer and the tyre would just eat the head light bucket, coil tower and fire wall. I am trying to find the right springs that are upto the job of carrying the weight. At this stage, i will be buying front 75mm JB springs, with the JB arm's as well, then i will sort out the bump stops.

Smiffkid run's standard height coils, with the tough dog 3" shocks. The shocks do "bottom out" ( ) , but the the TD shocks have build in bump stops. As much as you won't like that, they work and they are VERY strong. When i bent my diff, i blew a shock out. That was from 3 rather big jumps and the shock was only leaking a bit of oil, so i see it as a non-issue.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm beginning to get the impression you only post when you've had a skinful drewmouli. Might be wrong though. Oh well.

Can you explain how coil spacers put "more force" on the coils? Force is exerted by the weight of the body bearing down on the coil. That has't changed. The issue, as I see it, is that the coil might/will bind before the axle reaches the bumpstop. I don't know what "no issues" means for you, but it would be interesting to see how close those 80mm springs went to bottoming before the bumpstops were fully compressed. It's now clear from Monley's post that the 80mm kit should come with some bumpstop spacers. I think it's unlikely the 80mm springs could ever get the axle to settle onto the bumpstop, and it's clear that if they did, the shocks would bottom. The shock mounts on a Jimny weren't designed to deal with bumpstop loads.

Steve.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'm beginning to get the impression you only post when you've had a skinful drewmouli. Might be wrong though. Oh well.

Can you explain how coil spacers put "more force" on the coils? Force is exerted by the weight of the body bearing down on the coil. That has't changed. The issue, as I see it, is that the coil might/will bind before the axle reaches the bumpstop. I don't know what "no issues" means for you, but it would be interesting to see how close those 80mm springs went to bottoming before the bumpstops were fully compressed. It's now clear from Monley's post that the 80mm kit should come with some bumpstop spacers. I think it's unlikely the 80mm springs could ever get the axle to settle onto the bumpstop, and it's clear that if they did, the shocks would bottom. The shock mounts on a Jimny weren't designed to deal with bumpstop loads.

Steve.

I know where you are coming from Steve, and i do agree.

The rear will happily settle onto the factory bump stops with PRO COMP shocks For some reason the longer procomp shocks would allow the diff to get to the factory bump stop, but the TD shocks won't - guess that's the difference between the gas/oil vs oil filled shocks? (gas/oil been the firmer shock?)

" The shock mounts on a Jimny weren't designed to deal with bumpstop loads. "

This is true....in early model jimny's. I think it was in 05 (swap to VVT) they redesigned the lower shocks mount's the front diff. There are 2 different types of lower shocks mount's on the jimny - new model one's are stronger

[Gwagensteve]

Does that mean the upper shock mount is designed for bumpstop loads? In which year did Suzuki anticipate that?

All up, I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about TD's ability to design a functional suspension, regardless of lift height. Pretty sure it was tough dog's vitara struts that were too long for the car and punched though the strut towers if you bottomed the car hard (?)

Maybe TD and Calmini should decide on the same powder coat colour so we can more easily spot springs as bumpstops?

Steve/.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Does that mean the upper shock mount is designed for bumpstop loads? In which year did Suzuki anticipate that?

All up, I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about TD's ability to design a functional suspension, regardless of lift height. Pretty sure it was tough dog's vitara struts that were too long for the car and punched though the strut towers if you bottomed the car hard (?)

Maybe TD and Calmini should decide on the same powder coat colour so we can more easily spot springs as bumpstops?

Steve/.

Sorry, i thought you were only talking about the lower shock mount. As for the coil/shock tower goes, i have never seen or heard of one fail on the front of a jimny. There are many bloke's in the UK that race jimny's with very firm 2" lifted coils with stock coil/shock mount's and i haven't heard any reports of them breaking. Beside, you would have to be driving pretty fruggen hard to break the coil mount of the chassis right? I think most of us are more into crawling than doing big jumps.

[Gwagensteve]

It's not the coil mount that's the problem, it's the top shock mount. If the shock becomes the bump stop, then the top shock mount is doing the all the job of stopping the car compress. That's a fawking heap of force. Well-worked suzuki's are well known for splitting various chassis brackets. I'd be surprised if, long term, the chassis end of the shock mount was up to dealing with bumpstop loads - because that's what the bumpstop is for. Shocks need to be sized so that there is 25mm of shaft showing when the car is settled on to the bumpstop, minus 1/2 the height of the bumpstop. That might mean there's 50mm of so of shaft showing when the car is lightly resting on the bumpstop. I know that looks like a terrible waste, but it's inevitable.

IMHO there is no such thing as "bumpstops in the shocks" I know that there are some crappy foam cell shocks with stops on the shafts, but I think they are bootyfab unless you have built the suspension around them as the limiting element, and the mounts have been fabricated to suit. (actually, I still think t hey are bootyfab even then)

Steve.

[smiffkid]

I haven found any coil setup yet other then factory coils that will hit the front bump
Stops. Mine running factory coils hits both front and read bump stops because of the light cool rate
Tough dog coils compress the whole way together and the diff doesn quiet hit the bump stop
Tho in the rear with 80 mm coils the bump stop is still effective

Not sure of how the terrain over there is like but in WA we need a good amount of both up and down travel to keep our cars from takin naps.
Hence y most of us put up with a bit of guard rubbing instead of only small up travel

[smiffkid]

I haven found any coil setup yet other then factory coils that will hit the front bump
Stops. Mine running factory coils hits both front and read bump stops because of the light cool rate
Tough dog coils compress the whole way together and the diff doesn quiet hit the bump stop
Tho in the rear with 80 mm coils the bump stop is still effective

Not sure of how the terrain over there is like but in WA we need a good amount of both up and down travel to keep our cars from takin naps.
Hence y most of us put up with a bit of guard rubbing instead of only small up travel

[GRPABT1]

What happened to this post from Zukenutter? Change your mind?

Zukenutter wrote:

OK I'll bite.

Steve, I'd suggest you have a play with a Jimny so you can get a bit of a real world understanding of how they work.
I think I've been playing with Jimny suspension for long enough now to have enough experience over a range of different suspension set-ups to say that your points are mostly unfounded. Sure the Jimny suspension, like all other 4WDs has some limitations, pros and cons, but the points you are making while interesting seem based on experience with other set-ups.

The pic of Monley's coil is way out of the realms of anything I've seen, also I think that there's more to that story in the way of caster setup and pan hard length but I'll move on to your other points.

From experience, Jimny suspension naturally leans toward extension over compression. The articulation will naturally favour dropping the extending wheel over compressing the other side. I feel this is due to the light weight of the Jimny. I've played with soft coils to overcome this but even then I've never managed to get an aftermarket coil to completely bind. I've always told anyone who asks about shock lengths to measure their compressed and extended lengths between shock mounts to determine lengths that suit their particular set-up as opposed to just buying shocks "off the shelf". From experience the Tough Dog shocks are usually too long but the compressed length is usually OK.

Looking through Hedgepig's build it's obvious you've built it for a particular style of driving and terrain. I'm sure if you were to put that much effort into a Jimny you'd have a vehicle with similar drivability. Most of us don't have access or skill to build that let alone the inclination. Like I said earlier, you'd have to live with one for a while to better understand the true mechanics and then I'd say you can comment all you like, otherwise you're just speaking hearsay and speculation, and that's not the sort of guy I had thought you were... Or maybe you're just enjoying having an argument for the sake of it, in which case I say again, that's not the sort of guy I had thought you were.

Pretty sure someone like Steve can understand the true mechanics of what's going on in the pics he's posted. Perhaps you don't understand what it is he is trying to explain and why?

[zukenutter]

GRPABT1 wrote:

What happened to this post from Zukenutter? Change your mind?

Zukenutter wrote:

OK I'll bite.

Steve, I'd suggest you have a play with a Jimny so you can get a bit of a real world understanding of how they work.
I think I've been playing with Jimny suspension for long enough now to have enough experience over a range of different suspension set-ups to say that your points are mostly unfounded. Sure the Jimny suspension, like all other 4WDs has some limitations, pros and cons, but the points you are making while interesting seem based on experience with other set-ups.

The pic of Monley's coil is way out of the realms of anything I've seen, also I think that there's more to that story in the way of caster setup and pan hard length but I'll move on to your other points.

From experience, Jimny suspension naturally leans toward extension over compression. The articulation will naturally favour dropping the extending wheel over compressing the other side. I feel this is due to the light weight of the Jimny. I've played with soft coils to overcome this but even then I've never managed to get an aftermarket coil to completely bind. I've always told anyone who asks about shock lengths to measure their compressed and extended lengths between shock mounts to determine lengths that suit their particular set-up as opposed to just buying shocks "off the shelf". From experience the Tough Dog shocks are usually too long but the compressed length is usually OK.

Looking through Hedgepig's build it's obvious you've built it for a particular style of driving and terrain. I'm sure if you were to put that much effort into a Jimny you'd have a vehicle with similar drivability. Most of us don't have access or skill to build that let alone the inclination. Like I said earlier, you'd have to live with one for a while to better understand the true mechanics and then I'd say you can comment all you like, otherwise you're just speaking hearsay and speculation, and that's not the sort of guy I had thought you were... Or maybe you're just enjoying having an argument for the sake of it, in which case I say again, that's not the sort of guy I had thought you were.

Pretty sure someone like Steve can understand the true mechanics of what's going on in the pics he's posted. Perhaps you don't understand what it is he is trying to explain and why?

Just decided I didn't want to be misinterpreted and just really didn't want to get back into this debate. If you re-read my deleted post you'll see I comment that monkeys pic is very unusual.
You've already failed to fully understand my comments in your first sentence. If you read the whole thing again you'll realise I was talking about the mechanics of the way the Jimny suspension works based on actually driving and knowing the vehicle. I know Steve has a great understanding of dynamics but it's also clear that he's basing comments on Monley's pic and the short experiences of Jimny owners he knows who gave up trying to make it work, as opposed to persisting and working the vehicle long term.

[Gwagensteve]

Zukenutter - I'm not basing my comments on that pic (totally) but also on your, very important comment that jimmy's with lift springs don't like to compress and rarely/if ever reach the bumpstop. I don't need to own a car to see a problem with what owners are trying to achieve with a very limited suspension design.

The deeper we are getting into this thread the more my "speculation" about the 80mm spring lift (and Jimny lift springs in general) is being confirmed.

If a spring is binding before the axle can reach the bumpstop, that's a fundamental spring design flaw, and it's a function of the overall length of the spring that can be fitted into the vehicle. The fact is, suzuki designed a spring for the weight required and built spring buckets to suit. Putting a longer spring in there with an acceptable rate will mean it has too many turns of wire to fit in the space available when the spring is compressed.

This could be avoided by using less turns, but then rate will go too high.
It could be avoided by winding the spring in a "beehive" shape, but this technology isn't readily available, and makes for a progressive rate, which can be hard to engineer.

Binding springs is bad because A) the bumpstop no longer functions to slow the axle as it approaches compression and B) It roots springs. That's why Calmini springs "settle" - because they bind. Coils shouln't "settle"

TD obviously know their coils bind and that's why they've specced a shock that's too long for the daylight measurement between the mounts.

I don't know why TD don't supply bumpstop spacers. As I said before, I think they were doing something similar with vitara struts - running them too long for hectic droop and hoping nobody noticed they couldn't ever get onto the bumpstop.

Whilst the post is now gone, there's an interesting point about spring rate, length and "lift" springs in Zukenutter's post. Many "lift" springs are shorter than the factory spring sitting on the bench. That's because there's only room for so many coils of wire, and once the rate is increased to hold a new height, the spring doesn't compress as far as the softer, stock spring, so it can't start out as long. That's the key though - if everything else stays the same, then a "lift" spring typically requires a higher rate, and that's why the car is struggling to reach the bumpstops when flexed with aftermarket springs in it.

For most bolt on suspension lifts, overall flex is actually reduced compared to stock. TD have managed to increase flex by their spring binding trick - it's allowed them to run a longer shock than normally possible so the lost compression can turn into extra droop. This is sound practice... if it wasn't done by binding the spring, but by spacing the bumpstop. I suspect though that if a bumpstop spacer was supplied, people would complain about the "lost" wheel travel they never had in the first place.

Really, to get a, say, 80mm lift spring in and retain a low rate, the top spring mount would need to be raised to allow room for a spring that was longer fully compressed. Then the rate could be low, the coil would have lots of turns, and the full travel of the car would be achieved in both compression and extension. Mercedes design their suspensions with VERY long coils that are deeply compressed at ride height. My 2.5" lifted Gwagen front springs are 675mm long when open, and will travel through 300mm. It would be interesting to know the free length of the 80mm TD spring vs shock shaft travel. I bet the numbers don't add up.

Like I said, just because someone offers a product for sale doesn't mean it's a good product.

I was on a trip the other day with a car running a 5" Calmini suspension kit for a leaf sierra. It does exactly what it says on the box - it has 5" of lift and clears a 31" tyre. The fact is has no flex and the ride is totally unacceptable isn't Calmini's fault - they can't do the impossible - to do the job they were trying to do within the design constraints of a sierra chassis it has to ride terribly and have no flex. 80mm of lift in a Jimny is no different - TD are working with the design constraints of a Jimny chassis and coming up with the best solution they can.

I'll just add, this isn't an "argument" or even a "debate"- the more information people are posting, the more evident it is becoming that 80mm springs are too tall to allow the suspension to work the way it was intended. If those of you with them like the way the car works with them in, that's great for you. I suspect that's motivated out of aesthetics though as much as function because it's becoming clear that they don't really function very well.

It appears to me that jimny's should, perhaps, be bumpstop spaced by their spring lift amount give or take maybe 20mm. This would allow stock spring rate to be maintained regardless of lift height and therefore allow an appropriate length shock to be run to work with the new height. The end result would be springs that worked through their full range, springs could be designed with a softer rate because they could run more turns, a car that balanced on its bumpstops properly when flexing, and a net increase in suspension flex due to the shock lengths permitted. Thinking through this, that's actually pretty close to the way the more developed Jimny's over here were/are running.

Steve.

[zukenutter]

Ahh Steve that's a good response

While I've never really been a fan of bump stops and I guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree I do find this discussion direction of coil winds much more along the lines of the problem which also brings us back to desired use of the vehicle. Cases in point, my old Jimny and my new Jimny.

Old black Jimny; built to have as much articulation as possible... within my very lean budget,
- Soft dual rate coils (by way of varied wind spacing) Worked a treat off road, up travel was great and on extension, downward pressure was maintained on the extending side. The downside was on road performance with handling characteristics similar to the stock coils.

- New Silver Jimny; I'm currently running TD 80mm and while I concede that off road performance will have been reduced the overall on road experience is greatly enhanced. Remember as I've stated previously that my intention for this car is all-round performance with a leaning toward touring.

Here are some pics of the coils I have been running at different times.

TD 60mm rears on left and Front stock coils that I was running on the rear (Similar rate to the stock rears but gives about 60mm extra height).
Like you say the TD fail in many regards but for my purposes work well. The stocker is super compliant with plush feel but loses appeal as a DD



In this pic the yellow coils are King 40mm and the blue coils are the dual rate 60mm coils. The blue coils address a lot of the issues you've mentioned but again for my new vehicle purposes are a bit too soft.

[monley]

I will drop the front coil spacers out this afternoon and get some pics of the coil at full up travel.....

[Gwagensteve]

Zukenutter, your comments about dual rate coils and excessively soft ride are interesting. I remember Peter Luxon many years ago (before he was Safari Snorkels/APS) was playing with progressive rate coils on 80 series and really couldn't get them to work properly - the end result was a "bobbing" effect because on compression the rate was stiffer than on droop We went for a ride in his 80 series at the time and it was quite evident. If there was a huge difference between the "soft" rate and the "hard" rate on the two springs then this could be eliminated, but then you'd have three or four turns that sat compressed all the time until the car was heavily drooped and there isn't enough room for those turns when compressed.

Have a look at a coil over and you can see how the rates are separated to do different jobs, but take into account the huge length of the spring stack - that's because you need more than twice the travel required in free length.



Those yellow springs are there to keep the wheels loaded at full droop. The car will ride between the black and silver springs. That coil stack is about 36" long for 16" of shaft travel, which comes back to exactly the same ratio as my Mercedes - free length is 2.25 times spring travel. It would be interesting to measure the free length of some of those Jimny springs. Based on those figures you'd need an 18" long spring to achieve 8" of spring travel.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "not being a fan of bumpstops" It's like saying "Im not really a fan of fuel tanks" - they are a 100% required element of the car. We might choose to move them around, but only for the same reason the factory install them - to prevent a shock or coil over compressing, or to keep a tyre out of a guard.

WIth your 80mm springs, you've clearly added rate and that's improved road behaviour at the expense of off road ability, and that's where it gets a bit weird for me - what's the 80mm of lift doing if it requires a high rate to retain road performance and therefore sacrifices off road capability? Is it there to fit a bigger tyre due to the bumpstop-spacing effect of coil bind?

[zukenutter]

By "not being a fan of bumpstops" I simply meant extended bump stops. I understand your reasons for extending them but for me I'm happy with coil bind + coil spacer creating the stop point for the shock not topping out, therefore gaining the most up travel possible from a relatively simple setup. Yes 80mm coils are to clear 30s + for my own aesthetic preference, + yes to clear the 30s while allowing the maximum amount of up-travel and avoiding limited up-travel due to bump stop extension.

[GRPABT1]

I think your next project should be a Jimny with custom upper spring and shock mounts Steve haha. The tech in this thread is impressive now, I'm starting to understand what exactly are the limitations not just "the car will be spooky with 80mm lift".

[Mike57]

Not sure if this adds to the discussion but when I lost the lower shock bolt from my Jimny and made the warranty claim I got to speak with the OME design engineer at ARB (well one of them anyway - there are two at Kilsyth). I wanted to fit after market shock mounts and 20mm coil spacers to raise the back slightly and to avoid the possibility of losing another bolt. In that discussion we worked out that the existing shocks did not have enough travel to cater for the different shock mount but more importantly he would not allow any more than a 10mm spacer due to the fact that the spring could completely compress before the bump stop compressed and this was defintely not allowed due to the possibility of damaging the spring and the mounts. This was obviously undesirable in his view.

[Gwagensteve]

Out of interest, have a play with some of your springs and this calculator:

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

I'm using it to play with my vitara rears I'm using in the front of my car at the moment.

This calc. specs LWB vitara rears at about 150lb/" and ironman ( I think) SWB rear 2" springs at 164lb/" which is what I'm going to try in the front of my car now, in the interests of gaining some extra front compression travel.

PS - this thread is moving along nicely now with some real tech as opposed to the nonsense of the last couple of pages.

[zukenutter]

Interesting re OME guy comments. I base my comments on experience and while it's obvious that I don't wheel mine to the same level as some others, my old Jim certainly copped a good workout and those that have wheeled with me will attest to it being used far beyond Jimnys they'd seen prior. I've always used the coil compression as bump stop and never had an issue, not even a hint of fatigue. I think if you frequently launched it and had hard jolts/landings there may be an issue but that's to be expected. Momentum is something I only use on occasion where necessary.

The greater concern in my mind with the design is that when articulated the limiting point is the shock. If there are any stress points to worry about this would be my starting point but also, so far has not been an issue. One thing I know for sure is everything so far has worked well and nothing has broken. I lightly rested the old Jim against a bank once due to driver error and any other SWB 4x4 would have rested on its side too in that situation.

... and yes I agree this thread has certainly had a productive turn in direction...


although still way off topic

[Mike57]

I might see if I can catch the OME engineer tomorrow and ask him about this.