I'm sure many of you are aware that I've been building full floating, Vitara based rear axles for Sierras for some time.
I started this thread
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38240 back in 2013, but I'd been experimenting with the idea for some time by that point, and I was aware that Spidertrax offered full float axles for Sierras for a while years before.
I've personally built quite a few, and we have a bunch of them in Victorian club, where they are
generally trouble free.
However, since 2013, the landscape has shifted a little.
We're driving harder terrain, and we're driving more aggressively. We're also building cars that generate more traction. (there's a number of radius arm and link cars build or being built, and these don't have the "fuse" of axle wrap to save axles.
My junk can break rear 26 spline floater axles pretty easily, regardless of material or quality of design. (and we've seen a range) and we've had a couple of others go in the club, generally, when the car is jammed and the whole sidewall of the tyre is on the ground.
I am aware of a few people (on here) with different ideas about how to get more rear axle strength into a Suzuki package, and this thread is to serve as a discussion area for our ideas.
First though, a sidebar.
Quote:
Why not put hilux/patrol/landcruiser/whatever big heavy car axles under it and call it good?
Here's a few reasons.
I've wheeled plenty with axle swapped suzukis. I've driven a couple and watched them on the same obstacles as suzuki axled cars. They're generally at a disadvantage. This is due to weight, ground clearance, and width.
There's issues with clearing a large pumpkin on the driver's side front without adding excessive height. If we're having to trade off height, weight, and capability to avoid axle breakage, that's not a win in my book.
The key to Sierra capability is keeping the car light. An axle set designed for a car with a 3000kg+ GVM isn't consistent with keeping the car light. The huge increase in unsprung weight also makes the tail wag the dog at speed or if the car starts to hop or bounce.
Another key to Sierra capability is keeping the car narrow, between the inside of the tyres. This is where the sierra advantage of line choice and staying out of everyone else's holes comes to the fore. Wide sierras are less capable than narrow sierras.
The combination of solid pinion spacer/doubletough CV's is completely reliable even with a 35" tyre. I don't need to change the front. It's just fine.
I'd also like to, ideally, keep my light "slip on" rotors and 5 lug wheels. I have a lot of money in my tyre/wheel combination (most of us do) and don't want to throw it away because I need 6 lugs.
So this isn't a solution for everyone, but it's a solution for many of the people who were interested enough in a 26 spline floater, so the same reasons outlined above.
Porter8.Luke has already done some work on this, and as I've been chatting with him about it, I'll reflect his findings.
THIS IS NOT COMPREHENSIVE and it's not a how-to. It's a discussion. There's obviously more details I haven't included, and all the info might not be 100% accurate.
Step 1: The centre.
Two observations.
A Hilux third member (diff housing) will fit in a Vitara axle housing with a redrilled bolt pattern and a 3mm spacer. *this 3mm thing comes up a bit)
Pro: Hilux diff centres are plentiful, strong, have lots of locker options and ratios.
Con: Hilux ratios only match a couple of Suzuki ratios, and they're not the common ones. Yes, there is a 4.1, 4.3 and 4.88. but the deepest common ratio is 5.29, not 5.12, and the mid 4.X ratio is 4.5 not 4.65. these differences are too great to get away with if we're trying to match an existing front axle
A Hilux full spool could be machined to take a Vitara ring gear and fit in a Vitara third member. It's around 3mm bigger in a couple of key dimensions. The carrier bearings are almost identical bore to Vitara. This probably means annealing a spool before working it and then having it re-heat treated.
That's two ways of getting to 30 spline.
Tanshi - you had a hummer H3 side gear option for a Vitara airlocker to increase spline- was that the 28 spline side gear from the GM 8" axle? What was your plan for the spindles?
Now to the hard bit- the spindle.
a 30 spline axle WILL NOT fit through a sierra/vitara spindle. No way.
A few people have looked at different options.
Ford/Dana 44 is one.
Pros: It's available from wreckers, It has a 5 on 5.5 stud pattern.
Cons: bulk and weight. the factory ford splines are incompatible with Toyota (I'll deal with this later) . The freewheeling hubs are really long, so with narrow or minimal offset rims, the hub snout could become vulnerable. The factory rotors mount behind the hub (not slip on). I don't think there's a readily available spindle adapter to weld on.
Hilux is another option.
Pros: It's available from wreckers. splines will match the diff, (30 spline) drive flanges and general assembly is very similar to Sierra, just bigger. There's plenty of parts/upgrades etc. You could even bolt a Sierra drive flange on and run 26 spline axles (lol!) There are adapter plates to weld to 3" axlehousings off the shelf, such as those made by front range fab
https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/full-f ... sing-ends/Cons: weight, bulk, heavy brakes, way too much caliper for the rear. 6 lug hubs /brakes would need to be redrilled to 5 lug, which is a bit fiddly and compromised, as the holes get pretty close.
A bit of research turned up another option. It's maybe pricey, but might work.
F450 unit bearings, Low range drive flanges. It took me a while to land on this as a solution.
A few sources supply Ford F450 unit bearings (which are normally 35 spline, 8X170mm wheel stud pattern) to 5 on 5.5. Trail gear used to offer these, but they seem to only offer 6 lug now. Theirs were about USD$265 and likely a Chinese copy. Branik offer a Timken alternative.
http://branikmotorsports.com/99-04-supe ... 35-spline/And here's the bearing pocket which gets welded to the axle. Obviously, the caliper mounting brackets are redundant.
However, the catch here is that those burly F450 bearings only come with drive pucks for 35 and 40 spline. (and likewise, free wheeling hubs for 35 spline) We can't get a 35 spline axle into a Hilux or Suzuki centre, because we're limited by the carrier bearing ID. There is always the possibility of having a custom drive puck made for 30 spline toyota, but I think I've come across another option.
Trail-Gear offer the longfield studless hub for toyota, which replaces the Aisin style hub that we're familiar with from our suzukis to a ford style hub which is internally splined, like the F450 unit bearing. It contains a ford style drive puck that's splined for 30 spline toyota.
I think that's the last link in the chain.
A word on axles.
In all of these cases, a custom axle would need to be made, much like our existing 26 spline full float axles.
The ford D44 axles are 30 spline and are very close in diameter as toyota, but the splines have a different pressure angle - the angle of the teeth of the spline. Whilst its possible to have an axle splined differently at each end, the small change in diameter and spline cut makes my OCD hurt and creates scope for design and manufacturing compromise. I'd much rather have the axle splined the same at both ends.