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complex pipe bending
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Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  complex pipe bending
Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone knows of someone who can do a hideously complex bit of pipe bending for a sculpture.

The pipe needs to be 50mm in diameter, in mirror-finish stainless, suitable for outdoor life, and the ends need to be sealed over so it looks like solid bar.

I'm based in Sydney, but if necessary, I can travel

Here's some pics - the sculpture is just the grey pipe (which I'll pack solid with expanding foam as a template), and the valve:

Image
Image
Image
Image

If anyone can point me in a direction that'll help, I'd appreciate it.

cheers
mattg.
Author:  shep [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
you would probably be better off with some mild solid bar and some heat, a
bender that is able to bend like that would probably be worth millions.
Author:  SierraDan [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
shep wrote:
you would probably be better off with some mild solid bar and some heat, a
bender that is able to bend like that would probably be worth millions.



Right..
Just paint that tube in chrome paint!!
Author:  RIKSTR [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
X2 with Shep,

the other way to do it would be to do it in small parts and weld it together.
Author:  royce [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
Inductabend in vic could do it, but in sections and then youll need somebody to weld it all together

each curve would be a seperate bend, youll need to tell em what the radius is, expect 3-4 THOUSAND per bend :)
Author:  tonyevans [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
A good exhaust place can do that for you but the stainless pipe would then need to be polished which can be done at any plating shop - the exhaust shop should be able to blank the ends as well.

Please remember the bends will not be perfectly smooth as bending any pipe some distortion will occur.

Hope this helps - Tony
Author:  TryHard [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
tonyevans wrote:
A good exhaust place can do that for you but the stainless pipe would then need to be polished which can be done at any plating shop - the exhaust shop should be able to blank the ends as well.

Please remember the bends will not be perfectly smooth as bending any pipe some distortion will occur.

Hope this helps - Tony


Couldnt u pack the pipe with fine sand to make the bending smooth ? grandfather said he used to do that for tight bends ?
Author:  tonyevans [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
It will help a bit but there is a LOT of stretching and compressing going on when you bend metal - some distortion will occur even with solid steel bar and heat bending - the polished surface will of course show this up more in the reflections but I think it could be quite attractive in the sculpture which I like by the way.

Tony
Author:  ball [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
That would be more suited to someone that rolls pipe/tube.

I doubt an exhaust shop could do that as the bends are large radius bends.

Most pipe benders produce a much smaller bend radius.
Author:  RIKSTR [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
You might be able to do the whole thing out of copper by hand and get it chromed
Author:  abclarke [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
Oxy and ALOT of patience would be my tip!
Author:  ajsr [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
plastic tube and chrome plate.
Author:  TZAR [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
oxy, solid bar, and then get the whole thing chrome plated.

Since you probably want to keep the valve old and shitty looking you will probably just have to strip the chrome from it and then paint it in acid to make it rusty again. Or get each side of the valve done as a seperate piece and then weld the back together inside the valve. Just unbolt the top section and weld inside the valve body.

There is NO way known that you can keep pipe mirror finish and get it bent like that. The bending dies will score and damage the pipe as it rolls the bend. Its just not possible.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
you need one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOZUTOnbGEU&feature=fvsr
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
thanks for the suggestions folks. the pipe has to be able to support the weight of the valve, so metal is about the only option. we looked at options for sand packing, but none of the staff at college were confident in getting the sort of fluidity I need.

The cnc pipe bender is a bit of a revelation - the fact it can do spirals is the very thing i need. i'll start looking for companies locally who can do that sort of thing.

cheers,
mattg.
Author:  abclarke [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
Hope its worth the cash though, machine shops arnt cheap!
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
money is rarely the greatest expense in making art :)
Author:  royce [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
ill ask some rolling dudes tomorrow

your best bet for joining to teh valve is get some weldneck flanges and weld the toob to it, get some measurements of the stud pcd and hold size and ill figure out what type they are
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
thankfully, the joining process is something we've got lots of ideas about, and the expertise to do. basically, it needs to be able to be disassembled easily, but be solid when reassembled. we were looking at a sleeve with alignment pegs and slots.

but yeah, that's getting ahead of the real problem :)

cheers
mattg
Author:  abclarke [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
Haha thats starting to get more and more complex. Maybe have it split it pieces and fit together with pins to be punched in?

Do the joints need to be completly hidden?
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
there's essentially about 20cm where the pipe goes through the valve, and the coupling has to be in there. I had thought something like a couple of centimetres of 50mm pipe, in the middle of a 15cm length of pipe matching the inside diameter of the 50mm, so it would act as a ferrule , and either weld that centre bit into the middle point of the valve, or just use the valve itself to clamp onto it.

Ideally a solution where it can be assembled by someone else, and always have the correct alignment is what we're looking for... but again, that's after we sort the bending.

cheers,
mattg
Author:  abclarke [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
Just an idea, the bonnet of the valve could be removed and the gate modified to some how fix the pipe into position, making it atleast 2 halves?

Maybe inside the valve have the gate drilled with 4 bolt holes and have 2x 4 bolt full face flanges welded to the pipe to bolt it together?

Just out of curiosity whats this for and where abouts in sydney are you? I might be able to give you a hand if possible?
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
yes, I could modify the stopper part of the valve with a pin(s) that gets inserted into the middle of the ferrule to locate the rotation

im a final year sculpture student at the National Art School in Darlinghurst. We've got lots of welding (mig/mag/tig) & cutting (plasma/oxy/mains gas) gear, and the staff are all highly capable wetalworkers, we just don't have pipe bending on the levels of architectural perfection I'm after.

cheers
mattg.
Author:  shakes [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
matt_g wrote:
there's essentially about 20cm where the pipe goes through the valve, and the coupling has to be in there. I had thought something like a couple of centimetres of 50mm pipe, in the middle of a 15cm length of pipe matching the inside diameter of the 50mm, so it would act as a ferrule , and either weld that centre bit into the middle point of the valve, or just use the valve itself to clamp onto it.

Ideally a solution where it can be assembled by someone else, and always have the correct alignment is what we're looking for... but again, that's after we sort the bending.

cheers,
mattg


You've lost me. Royce is on the money, you would think he order's that stuff for a living ;)

The flange is bolted on the outside of the valve via 8-10 bolts. you can normally order flanges the correct pcd that you can weld the pipe too.

or are you not wanting the flange? and just the pipe directly into the valve?
Author:  royce [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
weirdos, they already make a way to attach pipe to a valve, strangely enough it can be affixed there and in teh same alignment too :)

Image
Author:  shakes [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
thats what I was getting at royce.
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
haha here we get into the aesthetics being more important than he practicalities - it has to look like the pipe is just passing through the valve, so I'm trying to avoid any visible mounting hardware, and I can't actually weld the top and bottom lengths of pipe to the valve, as it has to be disassembled for transport.

cheers
mattg.
Author:  abclarke [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
royce wrote:
weirdos, they already make a way to attach pipe to a valve, strangely enough it can be affixed there and in teh same alignment too :)

Image


Haha smart ass, i was trying to think of a way to avoid having a flange on the valve to keep it looking like he pipe goes through as one peice.
Author:  royce [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
do like abclarke mentioned, pull the bonnet off, rip the guts of the valve out and think about using a threaded union inside the valve with threaded stubs on the ends of the pipe, screw em together in there and bolt the bonnet back on

what diamter is the pipe? ill ask some guys this morning
Author:  matt_g [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: complex pipe bending
the valve has an inside diameter of 52mm, so 50mm pipe would be ideal. the pipe has to be able to support the weight of the valve on an angle (it's probably 15-20kg at least) and the weight of the top section of pipe without too much sagging at that bend where it first meets the ground out of the bottom of the valve.

cheers,
mattg.
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