[357]

Another noobish question... Opinions please, I've searched the site and done some googling, I've found that its about 50/50 yes fit one or no don't, but I'm after the why fit or why not fit one, my jimny is a 2008 model with 40mm lift and 215 km2s, also if you have one why did you get one and what one did you get? Thanks

[want33s]

Every other car I can think of that has radius rod front suspension has a steering damper.
EG:
GQ Patrol
GU Patrol
80 Series Landcruiser
100 Series Landcruiser
Range Rover

I wonder why Suzuki never fitted them as standard equipment.

[357]

Rtc or just damper?

[Reubs]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and argue you do not need a steering damper.

It seems the only reason people fit them is to counter death wobbles or to add some bling to their front end.

I have had death wobbles so bad I could not hold onto the steering wheel and had a damper fitted at the same time. Funnily enough new control arm bushes and kingpin bearings and adjusted wheel bearings fixed the death wobbles and in 50,000km (back when I wheeled in the mud every second weekend) they didn't return. My other coily which has only had the front-end rebuilt once in nearly 340,000km has never had them.

I recently fitted a damper to my current daily drive. It has awesome bling effect as it looks shiny and really gets people's attention. The only benefit is being able to return to centre quickly when doing tight manouvres in carparks!

Apart from added bling they are a waste of time IMO. In fact some people will argue that even the RTC spring should be taken off them, so in that case what would adding one do that renewing scraper seals or added shims to the king-pins wouldn't do?

[357]

The mud tyres feel a little rougher on the road compared to the highway terrains, would a damper or rtc make a difference maybe make it feel like road tyres again, I'm not trying to hide death wobbles

[royce]

To the people that say no damper, do you also run with no dampers on your suspension? after all if its all setup right it shouldn't need it right?

whats that? its impossible to fit a spring that will take care of every single possibility so you need to dampers to keep control?

Hmm well isnt that interesting

[want33s]

357 wrote:

Rtc or just damper?

I put RTC dampers in the same shitpile as Hiclones and those rubber 'anti-static' strips.

[squibby]

I'm with Reubs, but I don't think the ONLY reason people fit is to overcome death wobbles. I fitted a damper without an RTC spring, and then took it off because it can make your steering a bit heavier/and hence slower - obviously thats the whole point. The jimny has a quick steering rack (low number of turns lock to lock). Not sure how this compares to many other 4x4's, I have only driven a few, Kulgers, Rav4's, Hilux's at work but they all have a slower rack; so factor heavier steering into the equation and balance that off against what you want to achieve. I'm a lot of road use, so I don't want heavy steering - if you have a comp car, or are very offroad biased, I'd expect you might not care about your steering being heavier. The RTC comes in handy if driving in ruts and you loose track of dead ahead - but in my opinion this is hard to do in a Jimny because again as stated the rack is quite quick, so a full turn out and you aren't anything near dead ahead. The damper takes out the harshness if rock hopping or any other rough terrain, but this is a bit out there into hardcore 4x4 territory so again consider yout useage.

If you just want some bling, and a yummy damper poking out then yay woopy, I'm all for that too, but there are some negatives imo.

[Reubs]

357 wrote:

The mud tyres feel a little rougher on the road compared to the highway terrains, would a damper or rtc make a difference maybe make it feel like road tyres again, I'm not trying to hide death wobbles

357, in that scenario a damper will not make any difference - the vibration from aggressive tread lugs is being transmitted through the suspension, not your steering...

royce wrote:

To the people that say no damper, do you also run with no dampers on your suspension? after all if its all setup right it shouldn't need it right?

whats that? its impossible to fit a spring that will take care of every single possibility so you need to dampers to keep control?

Hmm well isnt that interesting

Royce, strangely enough shock absorbers are required to keep the tyres in contact with the road surface and the car would become dangerous to drive over any less-than-perfect road surface without them.

Steering dampers weren't factory fitted to coil spring sierras, jimnys, vitaras etc., - however these cars are deemed safe to drive without a damper and by not having one they aren't all going to develop killer wobbles and end up crashed unlike a car with no shock absorbers...

[squibby]

royce wrote:

To the people that say no damper, do you also run with no dampers on your suspension? after all if its all setup right it shouldn't need it right?

whats that? its impossible to fit a spring that will take care of every single possibility so you need to dampers to keep control?

Hmm well isnt that interesting

Whats that? Someone is stating something about supsension set up that is widely accepted as being rediculous? Now they are using that to make an opinion on a very different subject appear to be stupid; an opinion that differs from their own?

Hmm well isn't that interesting

- actually no, it happens occasionally and noobs will learn to ignore.

[want33s]

squibby wrote:

I'm with Reubs, but I don't think the ONLY reason people fit is to overcome death wobbles. I fitted a damper without an RTC spring, and then took it off because it can make your steering a bit heavier/and hence slower - obviously thats the whole point. The jimny has a quick steering rack (low number of turns lock to lock). Not sure how this compares to many other 4x4's, I have only driven a few, Kulgers, Rav4's, Hilux's at work but they all have a slower rack; so factor heavier steering into the equation and balance that off against what you want to achieve. I'm a lot of road use, so I don't want heavy steering - if you have a comp car, or are very offroad biased, I'd expect you might not care about your steering being heavier. The RTC comes in handy if driving in ruts and you loose track of dead ahead - but in my opinion this is hard to do in a Jimny because again as stated the rack is quite quick, so a full turn out and you aren't anything near dead ahead. The damper takes out the harshness if rock hopping or any other rough terrain, but this is a bit out there into hardcore 4x4 territory so again consider yout useage.

If you just want some bling, and a yummy damper poking out then yay woopy, I'm all for that too, but there are some negatives imo.

You should go and have a look under your Jimny.

Jimny's DO NOT have a steering rack.

[royce]

squibby wrote:

royce wrote:

To the people that say no damper, do you also run with no dampers on your suspension? after all if its all setup right it shouldn't need it right?

whats that? its impossible to fit a spring that will take care of every single possibility so you need to dampers to keep control?

Hmm well isnt that interesting

Whats that? Someone is stating something about supsension set up that is widely accepted as being rediculous? Now they are using that to make an opinion on a very different subject appear to be stupid; an opinion that differs from their own?

Hmm well isn't that interesting

- actually no, it happens occasionally and noobs will learn to ignore.

Whats that? some kid on the internet with 5 mins experience holding a spanner thinks he is a guru cause he is so far off the mark its not funny and can try and be a smart ass?
Funny that a steering damper does the EXACT same thing as a suspension damper

Tell me this, did Suzuki not fit them cause they have better engineers than Toyota and Nissan and Range Rover and they designed the same front end better (for a hint, go find jimny wobble thread) or because they are cheap cars and they were interested in keeping costs down where they could?

[royce]

Reubs wrote:

Royce, strangely enough shock absorbers are required to keep the tyres in contact with the road surface and the car would become dangerous to drive over any less-than-perfect road surface without them.
vitaras etc.,

So what so different about the conditions the big pendulum diff and steering assembly being pushed along like a wheelbarrow (cause they are stable ey) compared to the suspension trying to move it up and down?

Reubs wrote:

vitaras etc.,

So you have no idea how a death wobble is caused or even what forces are acting on what, if you did you'd know its impossible for it to happen on any IFS vehicle, GTFO of this thread and section, you are just helping to spread internet bullshit through your lack of knowledge.

[monley]

I had a RTC on my jimny...waste of $200 IMO....took the spring off...still a waste of $200 IMO don't bother with one...put the money towards some other "useful" mod....

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

To the people that say no damper, do you also run with no dampers on your suspension? after all if its all setup right it shouldn't need it right?

whats that? its impossible to fit a spring that will take care of every single possibility so you need to dampers to keep control?

Hmm well isnt that interesting

No, that's not interesting, that's a crock of shit. This is the newbie board, you're supposed to be helping not spreading more internet nonsense and confusing people.

Show me where the springs are in the steering system and I'll show you where it needs a damper to damp the springs oscillation.

Steering dampers are fitted to mask the effects of wear and tear on the moving parts of the steering system and variations in wheel balance. You will note they are pretty much unique to live axle vehicles. Where's the damper in your vitara? Hmmm, that's interesting. It doesn't fawking have one, and neither does any other IFS 4WD.

I have noticed an increase in steering feedback when I have removed the factory fitted damper a number of vehicles. Has the sky fallen in? No. Have I suddenly developed death wobble? No, despite running unbalanced wheels, dodgy alignment etc.

In fact, the only car of mine I've had death wobble in had a perfectly functional damper on the steering, and that was due to kooky caster through my inept modifications.

A properly maintained steering system does not require a damper. Kingpin preload is the key.

If you choose to run one to help reduce severe steering kickback on a manual steering car, that's up to you, however, in general use the steering will feel lighter and provide you with more (helpful) feedback without one.

Steve.

[squibby]

royce wrote:

Whats that? some kid on the internet with 5 mins experience holding a spanner thinks he is a guru cause he is so far off the mark its not funny and can try and be a smart ass?
Funny that a steering damper does the EXACT same thing as a suspension damper

Tell me this, did Suzuki not fit them cause they have better engineers than Toyota and Nissan and Range Rover and they designed the same front end better (for a hint, go find jimny wobble thread) or because they are cheap cars and they were interested in keeping costs down where they could?

Ha Ha, Dream on Royce , Have you got a 2008 Jimny with 215's 40mm lift and a damper? Are you talking from your experience with driving it around? Your arrogence amazes.

You post something incredulous about me to make yourself look smarter or to make your opinion better then mine. You insinuate I'm a kid who has held a spanner for 5 minutes and that you are older and have held a spanner for longer and so my comments must crap in comparison. Same as you did to Reubs when you brought in suspension into the topic to try and make his post on dampers and the wobble look dumb, and now your are referring to Land Rover, Toyota, Nissan Designers as if that lends more weight to your opinion again.

I have nothing to be ashamed of in my first post in this thread, I state multiple times IMO, and I don't claim to have driven loads of 4x4's either, but unless you can tell us all that you have a Jimny with similar tyres, lift and a damper, then my experience knocks yours over head over heal, so actually you would be coming across as the know-it-all Guru, thinking you know all about it when you aint driven it. I know that my opinion is based on experience.

Want 33 - Mini Power trip, - I should go have a look at my steering should I because you know the correct name for it, and I don't I thought all types were referred to as rack. Why don't you just tell me the correct name? It would have taken about the same amount of typing.

I thought Noobs was the no flame zone? Full of sarcasm from the mods as usual. I'm a kid know it all for calling BS on your stupid posts.

I've had a Jimny with a damper, and Reubs has cured the dreaded wobble without a damper. We both reckon a damper is not that great, and seems a few others do to. So go stick your condescending "To the people who say no damper" comment back where it came from. No worries with peoples opinions, but when you say it in a way to make othere people sound stupid for one it isn't that nice, and two you better make sure you know what you are talking about.

[want33s]

squibby wrote:

Want 33 - Mini Power trip, - I should go have a look at my steering should I because you know the correct name for it, and I don't I thought all types were referred to as rack. Why don't you just tell me the correct name? It would have taken about the same amount of typing.

I thought Noobs was the no flame zone? Full of sarcasm from the mods as usual. I'm a kid know it all for calling BS on your stupid posts.

I think the least you can do is get my name right...

You could look at your car or even google in the time it took you to type out that excuse..
Jimny's have a steering BOX not a RACK. Two completely different arrangements. You THOUGHT they were all the same


If you are not CERTAIN what you are typing is correct..... DON'T type it.

[squibby]

Ok, so the type of steering with the Box is referred to as a steering Box. Well Thanks... eventually. No need for me to go and have a look actually, I already know what it looks like. You could have told me with less attitude in half as many posts.

[atari4x4]

:popcorn:

[want33s]

squibby wrote:

Ok, so the type of steering with the Box is referred to as a steering Box. Well Thanks... eventually. No need for me to go and have a look actually, I already know what it looks like. You could have told me with less attitude in half as many posts.

[monley]

[Scales]

monley wrote:

I had a RTC on my jimny...waste of $200 IMO....took the spring off...still a waste of $200 IMO don't bother with one...put the money towards some other "useful" mod....

I did the same thing, but had the RTC on when i bought it. so no money wasted.

However i can notice the difference having the damper on (without spring), especially when going over the un-even spoon drain in my driveway, wheel doesnt fly out of my hands.
RTC spring was ghey as aids especially on non-power steer

[Blakey]

iv got a damper on my jimny with 31's it doent nothing to cure wobble. if its bad enough. as for what use it is. iv found it lessens how much the steeringwheel moves when you hit pot holes or go over uneven ground. and it makes the steering heavyer some people like that is it make you feel more in control.

but i have been told that its meant to change the resonant frequency at which your axle occilates from uneven tyres, bad kingpins etc. makeing its resonance change so as to not show up untill a much higher speed/frequency. something like that but its just a mask better to fix the problem then mask it

[Scales]

doesnt do shit for wobbles. not a fix.

a regular damper shouldnt make steering THAT much heavier, i didnt notice it all. RTC was VERY heavy steering.
I like for potholes, drains, random cats etc.

[christover1]

My lifted and 30 tyred Sierra developed serious wobbles.
Changed the stock stuffed damper for a OME damper, and it never wobbled again.

When I fitted power steering to my Sierra,
it was too hard for me to put a damper back on,
and I never had a problem with wobbles again.
I imagine ps fluid has some dampening properties? but don't know for sure.

One thing I'm sure of, though, is any modifications to suspension, steering or tyre size,
could mean the need to add something that car maker didn't think was needed originally.

Research, listen to all opinions, get professional advice,
and make the best decision you can.

[royce]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Show me where the springs are in the steering system and I'll show you where it needs a damper to damp the springs oscillation.

All the bushes allow enough movement to work as a spring, otherwise people curing wobbles by fitting stiffer bushes, well wouldnt cure it
Even seen a panhard on a patrol with a shimmy snap at the curved part, reckon its being a pretty good spring

Gwagensteve wrote:

Steering dampers are fitted to mask the effects of wear and tear on the moving parts of the steering system and variations in wheel balance. You will note they are pretty much unique to live axle vehicles. Where's the damper in your vitara? Hmmm, that's interesting. It doesn't fawking have one, and neither does any other IFS 4WD.

Show my how any form of IFS vehicle can make the diff swing side to side, oh it cant cause its attached to the chassis, not teetering on the end of a pair of leading arms

Gwagensteve wrote:

In fact, the only car of mine I've had death wobble in had a perfectly functional damper on the steering, and that was due to kooky caster through my inept modifications.

I got a wobble from fitting power steer (no wobble with no damper and manual steering either so there was no 'masking' I tried everything, including castor changes about 3 degrees either way, my front end was all in spec, damper fixed it

Gwagensteve wrote:

A properly maintained steering system does not require a damper. Kingpin preload is the key.

I 100% agree everything needs to be in spec and people mostly arent bothering to take the time to set them up properly, I also believe the scraper seals play a big part in damping the steering which is why Suzuki say to repalce them every 5000km in severe service on Sierras, its because of all this I like a damper, its not going to wear out of go funny suddenly due to big tyres or a decent mud session.

[gypsy]

My patrol on 33 had a wobble put new damper on fixed
my jimny 215/75/16 2inch lift had a wobble put new damper on fixed

[Liljim]

OK... another typical AZ argument thread.

I have a jimny with 215 km2s, When i fitted the tyres i found it tracked and got thrown around more than before the tyres were fitted.
I do a lot of freeway driving, so at that speed it can be a bit scary. I fitted a non RTC steering damper, it definitely lessened the problem. I notice no difference offroad, i bought it to stabilise my car at speed, it worked.
I used a cheap one from jimny bits.

[squibby]

Liljim wrote:

OK... another typical AZ argument thread.

I have a jimny with 215 km2s, When i fitted the tyres i found it tracked and got thrown around more than before the tyres were fitted.
I do a lot of freeway driving, so at that speed it can be a bit scary. I fitted a non RTC steering damper, it definitely lessened the problem. I notice no difference offroad, i bought it to stabilise my car at speed, it worked.
I used a cheap one from jimny bits.

Is it lifted, did you put some castor correction in? Glad you got good results with the damper.

[Liljim]

squibby wrote:

Liljim wrote:

OK... another typical AZ argument thread.

I have a jimny with 215 km2s, When i fitted the tyres i found it tracked and got thrown around more than before the tyres were fitted.
I do a lot of freeway driving, so at that speed it can be a bit scary. I fitted a non RTC steering damper, it definitely lessened the problem. I notice no difference offroad, i bought it to stabilise my car at speed, it worked.
I used a cheap one from jimny bits.

Is it lifted, did you put some castor correction in? Glad you got good results with the damper.

40mm lift with 15mm spacers up front to level it with the bullbar, no caster correction.