[303zuke]

Gwagensteve wrote:

That’s a statement though- “I’m going to XXX” - in that case, proceed.

If you ask for advice, you’ll get it.

Three pages later and that’s still the outcome. We can keep telling you that and you can keep coming up with “positive reviews” and 15 year old tech from the US but surely by now you can recognise that there are no advocates for putting big money into a G13BA here.

15 year old tech??

Anything he is proposing was done and sorted in the US in 1985, 35 years ago. At best, he will produce a leading-edge 1990 engine.

I can't criticise that, I'm still pumping old school revs and smoke from LJ50 motors.

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

I mean... well.. my comment was made in jest

I think it's unfair to say we've learned nothing and will learn nothing.
From the outset I've explained I'm backing the wrong horse.

Can we agree there are some unknowns?

I would love for someone who has experience with the Torquer Cam and Myside to make comment, but alas there is no-one so I've thus become the mule.
It would help me further for yourself and perhaps another engine builder to expand further on how port matching will hinder the performance of the motor.
And on that point, if the clear consensus is, "do not port your head or you will hinder much needed performance due to XYZ as tested in XYZ" then you need to trust that I will not proceed with that modification.

Can we agree on this point Steve?
A G13BA with extractors, exhaust and a good carb will perform better than a standard G13BA?

I am not an engine builder but have spent big bucks with them over the years. Just as an FYI the last 4cyl I got headwork done on cost me $3500 and that was just for the port work! Cams, valvesprings, retainers, oversized valves, etc was another 2k. Then don’t get me started in what it cost for the intake and exhaust to be match to the head (I am NOT talking port matching here).

Anyway I think I have a good example for your question. Anyone that is worth their salt and an engine builder will reduce the port size of the old Holden 202. The good guys will put in a weld in a wedge to raise the floor of the intake size with in turn reduces volume but promotes flow and velocity. I did have a post written out early but didn’t post it, what it said was anyone that uses the term “port match exhaust” worries me a little. The terms you want to hear are “5 angle valve grind, bowl work and short turn transition” simply porting to open up the throat of the ports often results in a loss in power and there is a lot more going on


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[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

Ahhh screw it all!!!

Hayabusa conversion!

Used to have a Busa... they've got torque

The main problem you will face will be gearbox. Hayabusa into a modern auto would be cool. Would be a nightmare sort but would be cool.

What I think might honestly suit you and is not too difficult to execute is a G13b GTI engine with a 4agze supercharger on the side.

Benefits I see for yourself:
You get a 4 valve high flowing head
You get a stronger bottom end that will handle boost
You get to say it’s a G13 and a 1.3L both same as stock
You will make enough power to lay black lines on pavement and brown lines in your trousers
You will make plenty of low end torque with the supercharger and make plenty up top with the cams and head designed to rev
The GTI engine conversion is relatively simple being the same base engine and is tried and proven with plenty of information around. And although not in Sierra there are plenty of boosted ones out there and info on that.
You can keep driving your car as is while collecting parts for the conversation as apposed to having your engine in pieces while your car sits idle for the 2 years longer than expected the project goes for
Everything will be reversible

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[The Saint of Killers]

vet 180 wrote:

The Saint of Killers wrote:

Ahhh screw it all!!!

Hayabusa conversion!

Used to have a Busa... they've got torque

The main problem you will face will be gearbox. Hayabusa into a modern auto would be cool. Would be a nightmare sort but would be cool.

What I think might honestly suit you and is not too difficult to execute is a G13b GTI engine with a 4agze supercharger on the side.

Benefits I see for yourself:
You get a 4 valve high flowing head
You get a stronger bottom end that will handle boost
You get to say it’s a G13 and a 1.3L both same as stock
You will make enough power to lay black lines on pavement and brown lines in your trousers
You will make plenty of low end torque with the supercharger and make plenty up top with the cams and head designed to rev
The GTI engine conversion is relatively simple being the same base engine and is tried and proven with plenty of information around. And although not in Sierra there are plenty of boosted ones out there and info on that.
You can keep driving your car as is while collecting parts for the conversation as apposed to having your engine in pieces while your car sits idle for the 2 years longer than expected the project goes for
Everything will be reversible

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I miss the days when the SC12's were a dime a dozen but those days are gone sadly.

This was my original plan but with a small turbo kit.
I had actually selected the GTI engine from a wreckers with just under 100,000 on the clock, was in the process of sourcing the loom kit but now I've gone the other way as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Ps No Tyres have been kicked, purchased plenty through them, including the small mortgage necessary for the aircon kit.

[vet 180]

Out of interest what was the cost of the GTI engine?


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[The Saint of Killers]

vet 180 wrote:

Out of interest what was the cost of the GTI engine?

$1650 with ECU & Wiring
No Accessories
No Incidentals (loom, dizzy mod etc)

I had to hand in my engine as-well minus the bits I used.

[Gwagensteve]

No wonder you’re considering putting money into a g13BA.

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

vet 180 wrote:

Out of interest what was the cost of the GTI engine?

$1650 with ECU & Wiring
No Accessories
No Incidentals (loom, dizzy mod etc)

I had to hand in my engine as-well minus the bits I used.

Ok first you mention $1650 with ecu and wiring. Then second it mentions no loom? Are you referring to the GTI to sierra loom?

As expensive as it may seem, honestly you will spend 10x that trying to get equal performance from a G13BA. What is a Baleno engine at the same place or any G16b. There are carby G16's fyi that might suit your goals if you would prefer to keep it looking old school.

[The Saint of Killers]

Gwagensteve wrote:

No wonder you’re considering putting money into a g13BA.

Haha, indeed.

[The Saint of Killers]

vet 180 wrote:

Ok first you mention $1650 with ecu and wiring. Then second it mentions no loom? Are you referring to the GTI to sierra loom?

Apologies as I was vague. Either I was to buy the included loom and have an auto electrician wire it up (not cheap), or purchase a pre-made one.
I read on this forum there is a company that supplies plug and play looms for around $400.

vet 180 wrote:

As expensive as it may seem, honestly you will spend 10x that trying to get equal performance from a G13BA. What is a Baleno engine at the same place or any G16b. There are carby G16's fyi that might suit your goals if you would prefer to keep it looking old school.

I'm not trying to rival an engine swap, just improve on a G13BA
A potential endeavour in futility
....aka polishing a turd, as some may call it.

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

vet 180 wrote:

Ok first you mention $1650 with ecu and wiring. Then second it mentions no loom? Are you referring to the GTI to sierra loom?

Apologies as I was vague. Either I was to buy the included loom and have an auto electrician wire it up (not cheap), or purchase a pre-made one.
I read on this forum there is a company that supplies plug and play looms for around $400.

vet 180 wrote:

As expensive as it may seem, honestly you will spend 10x that trying to get equal performance from a G13BA. What is a Baleno engine at the same place or any G16b. There are carby G16's fyi that might suit your goals if you would prefer to keep it looking old school.

I'm not trying to rival an engine swap, just improve on a G13BA
A potential endeavour in futility
....aka polishing a turd, as some may call it.

Ah ok makes sense. It’s a pretty simple loom from memory, but as you mentioned there are still a few other little things that need to be done.

Modifying cars becomes a rabbit hole. For what you drive (mostly beachwork from what I read earlier) your original plan is not a bad one.

Still I think you best bet is to to buy a tire compressors and a recovery kit from somewhere like 4wd supercentre and get out there and enjoy yourself. Plan and collect your parts on the side. I say this as I have 2 4wd’s one is closer to stock, the other modified with engine conversion etc. In the last 4 years I have done 120,000kms on 1 with around 30,000kms of that pure off-road driving. The other has done 2000 at best combined. I won’t have to tell you which is which. But as soon as the car goes off-road for some work it takes time to get back on road




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[The Saint of Killers]

Well the cylinders have done the talking;

1 128
2 122
3 129
4 129

Thats a rebuild for sure!
I must say, I'm surprised it's not blowing smoke
and equally surprised I can climb the Southern Expressway at 90kph

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

Well the cylinders have done the talking;

1 128
2 122
3 129
4 129

Thats a rebuild for sure!
I must say, I'm surprised it's not blowing smoke
and equally surprised I can climb the Southern Expressway at 90kph

Doesn’t seem THAT bad to me, it will still keep running for a year or two yet. What did the wet test show?


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[The Saint of Killers]

That's all he sent so far as he did it as a quick favour while it's getting the paint and panel done.
I requested wet vs dry to see how she fairs.

It could be a separate issue, valves etc but I've read that's quite low for a G13BA dry test.
I searched yesterday and under 150 isn't great, at least that's how I interpreted it ... was a few wines in last night by that stage hahahaha

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

That's all he sent so far as he did it as a quick favour while it's getting the paint and panel done.
I requested wet vs dry to see how she fairs.

It could be a separate issue, valves etc but I've read that's quite low for a G13BA dry test.
I searched yesterday and under 150 isn't great, at least that's how I interpreted it ... was a few wines in last night by that stage hahahaha

It is correct that under 150 isn’t great, but the spread wasn’t too bad it’s not like 1 cylinder was 120 and the rest were 160. Yes the engine is most likely well worn, but it’s pretty evenly worn which means it should still keep going for a while yet until you decide what is best for you.


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[303zuke]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

I searched yesterday and under 150 isn't great, at least that's how I interpreted it...

Not sure where you searched (Hot hatch fanboy website?), but brand new, factory fresh the G13BA compression ratio is 9.5:1, or 139psi. 125-ish psi is AWESOME figures for a 25yo car.

[fordem]

You might want to check the Suzuki FSMs - a G13BA in good condition is expected to have 199 psi, with a lower limit of 156.4 psi and a variation of no more than 14 psi - figures taken from the manual for an SF413-2, which is the G13BA powered Swift - 125psi is a very tired engine.

[303zuke]

199psi is 13.5 times atmospheric pressure. Never knew Suzukis had anywhere near that sort of compression ratio!

[The Saint of Killers]

I'm outright confused at this point.
I looked in the owners manual but it only states the compression ratio.

Searched further online and on several forums, they state 199 PSI and no less than 170.

[The Saint of Killers]

Just spoke with the wreckers who will be fitting the aircon later this month.
They confirmed 129 is tired.

[vet 180]

The Saint of Killers wrote:

Just spoke with the wreckers who will be fitting the aircon later this month.
They confirmed 129 is tired.

Honestly different testers can give different numbers. The spread is the most important thing. Your spread is good. Also the difference in leakdown. Do a wet test first and post the difference.

I also think 199 is crazy high for a 9.5:1 comp motor, but if that’s what the manual says it’s what it says. Must be something in the cam that builds high comp at very low rpm speeds. Does make sense with the motor being built for torque


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[Gwagensteve]

Page 22-4 of the factory service manual for the SJ413, Engine service data.

199.0psi standard, service limit 170psi @ 400rpm.

no more than 14.2psi difference between cylinders.

compression ratio is 8.9:1

This is for the g13A (1324cc). I can't imagine the G13BA is much different.

[The Saint of Killers]

Well there's always good news with the bad.
I may have scored Lukey extractors and a full system for $200.
Checking it out next week.

[vet 180]

Not a bad deal


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[MrRocky]

So much $$$ on a build chasing tiny hp gains, put a little more into the exhaust. Cram more air in and get it out more efficiently will net you extra neddies.
4 into one extractors and 2" mandrel bent system would be optimal. Remember your exhaust is only going to flow as well as your worst restriction. Press bent 2" is the equivelent to having a 1.5" exhaust.
Any n/a build chasing performance puts maximum effort into the zorst. Id also drop some $ on a high flow cat if you intend on running one

[The Saint of Killers]

I don't even know the size yet. It's fitted to the wreck that has my aircon unit. For all we know, it's a decent system with HF cats already.

[vet 180]

MrRocky wrote:

So much $$$ on a build chasing tiny hp gains, put a little more into the exhaust. Cram more air in and get it out more efficiently will net you extra neddies.
4 into one extractors and 2" mandrel bent system would be optimal. Remember your exhaust is only going to flow as well as your worst restriction. Press bent 2" is the equivelent to having a 1.5" exhaust.
Any n/a build chasing performance puts maximum effort into the zorst. Id also drop some $ on a high flow cat if you intend on running one

I am of a very different opinion to this for the G13BA. No point wasting cash on an expensive mandrel bent exhaust when it should never be a restriction for the small pump. E.g. a 2 inch single exhaust will flow 150hp without being a restriction, a crush bent 2 inch system should easily flow 100hp. Both are more than a G13BA will make without extensive mods. Save your cash and go a crush bent 2 inch or whatever is at the wreckers.


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[MrRocky]

Spending 6k on optimising an engine then skimping with a povo exhaust seems silly to me.
By that reasoning why bother with any headwork, carb jetting, intake etc...
Might net you only 2hp but if you can squeeze hp out of every mod it adds up.
Mandrel bends are cheap as, the lwbs ive done work out at about $160 for straight pipe flanges and bends with a muffler from the local exhaust shop. Takes me an hour to buzz it up

[vet 180]

MrRocky wrote:

Spending 6k on optimising an engine then skimping with a povo exhaust seems silly to me.
By that reasoning why bother with any headwork, carb jetting, intake etc...
Might net you only 2hp but if you can squeeze hp out of every mod it adds up.
Mandrel bends are cheap as, the lwbs ive done work out at about $160 for straight pipe flanges and bends with a muffler from the local exhaust shop. Takes me an hour to buzz it up

It’s not about povo or not, it’s about a measure of restriction. We are not talking 300kw turbo performance 4cyls here. We are taking an engine that would be lucky to make 65hp on a good day. You are also comparing material cost and custom building your own exhaust vs something off the shelf or a shop will do. Don’t get me wrong if you have the ability and there isn’t much in it then by all means future proof your car with a full mandrel bent exhaust. Just don’t think it gained you any power over old mates crush bent 2 inch on a g13. If you put a G16 in it or go forced induction later it might be worth it.

Well the irony in your by that reasoning comment is it has been exactly what I have been saying in this thread up to this point. I have stuck by the a simple proven conversion is the way forward rather than headwork, carb jetting and intake manifold. Either a GTI or G16 stock heads will most likely flow more than a ported G13BA and you get the bonus of either getting a stronger bottom end for boost or more displacement.

$200 for the extractors and full exhaust from his wreckers is a good deal. Won’t really matter if it’s crush bent or mandrel bent as either won’t be a restriction


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[The Saint of Killers]

vet 180 wrote:

old mates crush bent 2 inch on a g13.

Lol... this is quite the project
I've been reduced to "old mate"