[disco]

1) A recovery point is where you attach a snatch strap to. So if you get stuck, another vehicle can tow you out, or you can be towed out, correct?

2) This is the recovery point on the rear of the new Grand vitara, correct?



3) this is NOT the recovery point at the front. The front doesn't have one?



4) Are recovery points known as anything else, since there is no mention of them in the manual?

Edit - I am so confused. ARB can make a bullbar with a winch (that can withstand a large amount of force) but they cannot do one with a recovery point. The engineering companies they recommends say 'no, talk to ARB'.

[christover1]

Tie down points for transporting.

[Mike57]

The best recovery point on the rear of most vehicles will be a well manufactured and attached tow bar. The front is always problematic. To be safe the snatch point must be rated for a minimum of about 2.5 times the expected maximum force (more than that is better). Then in addition it needs to be tested to be properly rated and the testing will confirm that there will be no distortion of the chassis at maximum load. ARB and others simply don't spend money on all the R&D to do this for low volume vehicles.

The best way to get any sort of recovery point that is safe is to find an engineer that will prepare a design for you to take to a fabricators. Even then they probably won't sign their name to it but at least you will have some confidence that you won't kill anyone.

That is the proper way to do it. Short of that always use an equalising strap and attach to both the points on the ARB bar, use a 4,000kg strap and never go fast when snatching. The idea is that you want the strap to break before anything pulls off the vehicle. If you don't have an ARB bar on the front or a tow bar on the rear then back to getting someone qualified to give you some advice unless you can find a commercial product somewhere. Personally I would find an engineer to give me some advice so I know it is done properly.

[disco]

Ah right, things are so much clearer now.

I really don't plan on doing a lot of proper 4WDing, mostly going from camp site to camp site, so I think I'll take the tow-bar / bull bar / light snatch option. But only as a last resort.

[steve125]

The front has two points. The passenger side one is just a tiedown point for transport. The driver side one is a tow point but not a 'rated' recovery point, ie. not meant for snatch recoveries. However, GVs are lightish vehicles and also unlikely to get so stuck you need a full power snatch recovery. Mine's been used several times to tow me out, usually when I'm stuck because of ground clearance issues.

On the rear I use the towbar with one of these fitted.







A guy in Geelong solved his recovery point problem this way.

[Mike57]

Can't see exactly what it is attached to but that front arrangement looks like it would do the job. I would prefer to use a shackle through a hole in the steel plate rather than those cast hooks. I don't trust anything cast but maybe they are OK.

[disco]

Mike57 wrote:

The best recovery point on the rear of most vehicles will be a well manufactured and attached tow bar. The front is always problematic. To be safe the snatch point must be rated for a minimum of about 2.5 times the expected maximum force (more than that is better). Then in addition it needs to be tested to be properly rated and the testing will confirm that there will be no distortion of the chassis at maximum load. ARB and others simply don't spend money on all the R&D to do this for low volume vehicles.

The best way to get any sort of recovery point that is safe is to find an engineer that will prepare a design for you to take to a fabricators. Even then they probably won't sign their name to it but at least you will have some confidence that you won't kill anyone.

That is the proper way to do it. Short of that always use an equalising strap and attach to both the points on the ARB bar, use a 4,000kg strap and never go fast when snatching. The idea is that you want the strap to break before anything pulls off the vehicle. If you don't have an ARB bar on the front or a tow bar on the rear then back to getting someone qualified to give you some advice unless you can find a commercial product somewhere. Personally I would find an engineer to give me some advice so I know it is done properly.

Just reading the manual it doesn't call those two points I've photed tie down points, it says they are frame hooks "provided on both the front and rear of the vehicle for use in emergency situations".

It says not to use them to 'tow or be towed by another vehicle on the road or highway unless in an emergency'

It certainly implies they are to be used as recovery points...

[atari4x4]

on-road "recoveries & towing" don't quite carry the same loads as off road recoveries when a 4wd is bogged or stuck...

[Mike57]

disco wrote:

Mike57 wrote:

The best recovery point on the rear of most vehicles will be a well manufactured and attached tow bar. The front is always problematic. To be safe the snatch point must be rated for a minimum of about 2.5 times the expected maximum force (more than that is better). Then in addition it needs to be tested to be properly rated and the testing will confirm that there will be no distortion of the chassis at maximum load. ARB and others simply don't spend money on all the R&D to do this for low volume vehicles.

The best way to get any sort of recovery point that is safe is to find an engineer that will prepare a design for you to take to a fabricators. Even then they probably won't sign their name to it but at least you will have some confidence that you won't kill anyone.

That is the proper way to do it. Short of that always use an equalising strap and attach to both the points on the ARB bar, use a 4,000kg strap and never go fast when snatching. The idea is that you want the strap to break before anything pulls off the vehicle. If you don't have an ARB bar on the front or a tow bar on the rear then back to getting someone qualified to give you some advice unless you can find a commercial product somewhere. Personally I would find an engineer to give me some advice so I know it is done properly.

Just reading the manual it doesn't call those two points I've photed tie down points, it says they are frame hooks "provided on both the front and rear of the vehicle for use in emergency situations".

It says not to use them to 'tow or be towed by another vehicle on the road or highway unless in an emergency'

It certainly implies they are to be used as recovery points...

Disco

They are definitely not rated recovery points as Suzuki don't provide them on any vehicle, nor do Toyota or Nissan for that matter.

[disco]

Fair enough. I'll wait till ARB put the bullbar on and attach two to the front like you recommended. I presume an equaliser strap will makes things happy too. Will have to find someone that can do that for me though...

So I presume an ARB fitted towbar with a proper accessory (as per Steve's photo) is strong enough by itself?

[Mike57]

Disco

Yes, the tow bar with the accessory that Steve showed will be fine but make sure the hitch receiver is 50mm x 50mm. Those accessories only come in 50mm x 50mm size. The Jimny tow bar with lower rating is usually 40mm x 40mm in which case just use the pin in the middle of the receiver. I am not sure what the standard is for the GV.

For the front the ARB bar will come with two holes in the steel plate at the front (will be obvious if the same as the Jimny). For an equaliser strap use a tree trunk protector that is also made to be used as an equaliser strap. Always use rated shackles and for the ARB bar use the largest shackle that will fit through the hole. That will give you the highest pull through strength. Use a low rated snatch strap like 4,000 kg and never go fast when snatching.

What is the weight of the GV by the way? If you have any doubts send me a photo of the ARB and the tow points on it when fitted.

Mike

[disco]

Hi Mike,

I really appreciate the time you've spent helping me, I hope I can do the same in some capacity one day.

Yeah I'll send an email of to ARB to check the hitch receiver now.

The Gross Vehicle Mass rating is 2070-2100kg.

[Mike57]

OK so the snatch load would be calculated as 2 to 3 times the vehicle mass so that would be 4,000 to 6,000 kg. Stick to the low side and use a strap with a 4,000 kg rating. Snatch straps are rated with their breaking strain but there is no guarantee that they will actually break at that limit and may go well over it. When I did the calculations on my ARB bar I rated those tow point holes in the bar at 2,000 kg each with a factor of safety of 2 as I recall (would need to dig up the calculations to remember exactly). So if you stick with a 4,000kg strap and use an equaliser it should be OK. However, I am not giving any guarantee on this and use those tow points in the bar at your own risk.

As I mentioned you want the strap to break before any attachment point. A recoiling strap will do less damage than a recoiling strap with a shackle or a piece of your car attached to it.

Mike

[disco]

Sure thanks, I just checked the quote and the hitch was "H/Reece towball 50mm 3500kg"

I presume this means with a 3500kg towball & 4000kg snatch strap I would be 'reasonably okay' with other smaller 4WD's but that I wouldn't want to try to pull a landcruiser out.

[Mike57]

Disco

The 50mm here refers to the size of the tow ball. You need to ask about the size of the hitch receiver but if it the tow bar is rated at 3,500kg it will most likely be 50mm square but ask them.

You should dimension the strap for the lighter of the two cars involved in the recovery so still use 4,000 kg to recover a cruiser. It will stop anything being pulled off your vehicle which is the critical part. Plenty of people have been killed in recoveries.

Mike

[Mike57]

Disco

I should have added that you can NEVER attach to the tow ball. Only use the pin in the hitch receiver or one of the special attachments. The tow ball WILL snap off and possibly kill someone.

Mike

[Abraxix]

Mike57 wrote:

Disco

I should have added that you can NEVER attach to the tow ball. Only use the pin in the hitch receiver or one of the special attachments. The tow ball WILL snap off and possibly kill someone.

Mike

do you htink it's "safe" to attatch the snatch inside the towbar hitch, and use the "pin" and split pin through the snatch??

so how your tow bar is held in place with the big lock pin through it all, as i've been using that in previous recoveries, just pull the giant pin think out snatch goes in and pin goes through re-secured with the split pin thing at the end

is that considered "safe" ?

[Gwagensteve]

Yes. I think this is actually safer than many of the aftermarket receiver mounted recovery eyes.

Steve.

[SierraDan]

Yep, agreed. Its just if you're in a lot of mud/dirt the can fill with mud and make it difficult to use in that manner. I like the hitch receiver recovery block.

[Pooke]

steve125 wrote:

Holy batman! Is that legal over there? Here you would have issues getting a WOF and if you were in an accident the insurance company wont be very happy.

Do you not have a requirement for all fittings attached to the front to be certified air-bag and frontal impact compliant?

[Mike57]

Pooke

Same over here technically.

Mike