[GeckoXL7]

Hi,

Calling all XL-7 owners as there are few different series 1 and 2 on here.

Would be good to see / have a reference on radiators and configs of the XL_7 as seen a few different ones.

EG small radiator 529wide, large radiator 599 wide, Radiators with out caps (radiator cap is on the thermostat housing), Water outlet on both sides of radiator eg top passenger bottom driver. and both on passanager side.

Main reason as looking into upgrading the cooling as good as the XL-7 will accept.

Measured a Radiator can be up to 640wide by 550 high. seems the norm is 26mm thick.

You can get performance the closest one i can see fitting is a Nissan S13 but its slightly to wide. So pretty much stuck with the plastic top and bottom ones which seem to not have any issues.

The main thing with XL-7s prob mainly mine with the small radiator fit for a 2L grand vitara is that Creaping slowly through sand on a +30degree day the engine does start to run hot. Hence twin electric and the largest radiator i can fit.

Would be good to know Year of XL-7, month, and radiator measurements and if it has a radiator cap on it or not and where the inlet and outlet is.

Good thing though is you can pick up any of the 3 sizes for around $140 which is cheap for a radiator. Toyotas looking at 6 times this.

[Abraxix]

when I get home i'll attempt to get the measurements for you for sure.

Stella is a 2004 XL7 (face lifted) so I think that means that she's the "XL-7 II" if you're talking about the series 1 & series 2, I guess she'd be a 2.

but I will get the info when I get home - won't be hard with the daughter

[GeckoXL7]

ahh cool thanks would be a series 2.

Main difference is inlet / outlet position, radiator cap positoin and width. the Height is pretty much all the same.

Tried searching for thermostat housing to see if could go a series 2 radiator, didnt find much in aus.

[murcod]

Something you might be interested in:

When I was testing (prior to my twin electric fan conversion) I was monitoring the EFI Coolant Temp Sensor for reference voltages in different conditions. The reason - because I have used a voltage sensing switch to turn the fans on/ off so needed to know what constituted a "normal" operating temperature (via CTS voltage.) I tested during summer in Adelaide in stop/ start suburban traffic with days up to 45 C. After fitting the electric fans there was a noticeable improvement in the cooling capacity in slow traffic. The CTS voltage revealed the coolant temp was dropping quicker on the hottest days at idle, whereas with the viscous fan the temp would sit higher until driving off (ie. the viscous fan revs increased + natural airflow increased.)

You do need to make sure your electrical system is in good condition as the fans do suck a lot of current at idle - when the alternator isn't generating a lot to compensate.

Regarding the different radiator sizes, try Ebay and Google for the specs for pre and post face lift. Like you've said, they are different.

[GeckoXL7]

THanks mucrod,

yeah looked at ebay heaps of different radiators but i guess there all from china the gen desso ones are around 400 but pretty much all the same.

My fans drawer very litle around 8amps for the both of them around 10 to start up. the alternator is up to the job, monitor the volts and have a permanant meter attached just have to rewire so it reads the current draw more acuratly.

Im just curious what other xl-7s have as i thought my radiator was pretty small for a 2.7L. i reacon they went larger in 2003.

[Chop]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

THanks mucrod,

yeah looked at ebay heaps of different radiators but i guess there all from china the gen desso ones are around 400 but pretty much all the same.

My fans drawer very litle around 8amps for the both of them around 10 to start up. the alternator is up to the job, monitor the volts and have a permanant meter attached just have to rewire so it reads the current draw more acuratly.

Im just curious what other xl-7s have as i thought my radiator was pretty small for a 2.7L. i reacon they went larger in 2003.

You might think its small but mr suzuki put it there for reason and its up to the task. Yours is running hot for a reason other than size of radiator.

[atari4x4]

^ nail on the head, put the viscous fan back on & do some tests.

[GeckoXL7]

Ran perfectly fine on way home only started rising when under load eg going over a bridge.

Replacing oil tonight. Should help a lot.

Than old fan is cactus

[atari4x4]

you trying to tell us you're/were running a J20a gearbox?

i'd be putting it back to a known working set up to eliminate the variables & the oil must be like tar if you think it's causing it to run warm

[GeckoXL7]

lol well the gear box was deff smaller than a 2002 and 2003 could be a 2.5 but never had a close look at one before.

The oil is just GTX 20w50 with engine flush in it, had aircon on all way home sat on 88 to 94 went to 101 going over a bridge then straight back down to 88, so gather its the oil as the fans where running and they do work quite well.

But the main thing i want to know is the size of other xl-7 radiators. The badges in the engine bay and tyre placard say its a 2.5L grand vitara the only reference mentioning its a 2.7 is the engine id badge saying its a h27a.

even the exhaust has a 2" tail pipe when should be 2.24" like the rest of the exhaust.

It could be a sticky thermostat not opening enough either going back to the early days had a dayco in the Nissan and just remembering it over heated too on the highway untill i replaced it again.. To bad i installed my old working one in a friends car.

[ninjamoses]

I can confirm you do suffer from small radiator syndrome

May 2001 Auto XL7 - Core itself measures 610mm wide.


With that said, I still don't think radiator size is the issue. I was running the H27 in the green one with the standard GV cooling system still with no issues at all.

Nov 1998 Manual GV - Core itself measures 530mm wide


Neither vehicle has ever gone over the half way mark on the gauge, regardless of conditions/speed/terrain etc.
Both vehicles have the inlets/outlets in the same spots (top and bottom on the passenger side of the vehicle).

I'd be going back to the standard setup mate if you continue to have issues with it. Seems like a lot of trial and error for no real benefit?

EDIT: Bonus photo of a 1998 2.5 gearbox since I had it handy

[Chop]

You still using that crap you call fuel in your car? My understanding of ethanol is it makes engines run hotter?

[GeckoXL7]

hey ninja thanks thought i had a small radiator lol.

Pics aint working? Im going to get a new radiator anyways as the old one has quite a few bent fins on it.

Ill see how she goes tomorrow.

Chop: Ethonal actually burns cooler than norm fuel, and its running standard 92ron with Liqui molly fuel conditioner.

[atari4x4]

could it not be the waterless coolant?

could it not be the thermo fans?

could it not be that you don't have a shroud?

[murcod]

I'd be suggesting (as previously mentioned) you've got other cooling system issues- or your fan is not up to the job. Just the current draw alone would suggest it isn't high enough capacity.

This is the one I'm using http://www.spal-usa.com/fans/automated/ ... lpull.html (which fit's nicely across the full width of the core). Current draw is rated at 25 - 36 Amps depending on the restriction to air flow; 2780CFM with no restriction. More info on the install here http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-20 ... fan-4.html Skimping on electric fan conversions will only give you endless headaches - I learnt that the hard way.




Your fuel (ethanol blend) could also be worth looking into (as mentioned). I used to run mine on stock 91 octane until I heard it detonating one day (in a cutting with the windows down.) I've run 98 octane (BP Ultimate) since then.

[JrZook]

atari4x4 wrote:

could it not be the waterless coolant?

could it not be the thermo fans?

could it not be that you don't have a shroud?

Isn't this racecar also running an EWP?

[JrZook]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

The oil is just GTX 20w50 with engine flush in it, had aircon on all way home sat on 88 to 94 went to 101 going over a bridge then straight back down to 88, so gather its the oil as the fans where running and they do work quite well

I seriously doubt that the oil temp can change the coolant temp that quick. Once the oil heats up it retains heat for quite a while.

[atari4x4]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

The oil is just GTX 20w50 with engine flush in it, had aircon on all way home sat on 88 to 94 went to 101 going over a bridge then straight back down to 88, so gather its the oil as the fans where running and they do work quite well

hang on... are you driving around with an engine flush in the motor, pretty sure you're only ment to let it idle for 10 minutes with it in there prior to changing the oil, be fucked if i'd drive my car/load it up with something that is clearly designed to thin/brake down the oil.

JrZook wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

could it not be the waterless coolant?

could it not be the thermo fans?

could it not be that you don't have a shroud?

Isn't this racecar also running an EWP?

[GeckoXL7]

Not running waterless cooling or a ewp as yet. and prob wont.

Ninja thats the same gearbox pulled from the xl-7, the one i put in did not have that extension in the middle before the tranfer and that radiator is deff bigger than mine.

Mucrod, that setup is what im looking for fans with shroud thanks. the fans i have do pull through alot of air nothing wrong with them cooling the car as ive said before the car went to 107 degrees i manually turned on the fan and within 15seconds it was back down to 88, cooling that quick i dont think its the fans fault. The thermoswitch has been changed to a 70degree one which seemed to fix that issue.

The fans have a built in shroud there is only two corners not covered on the radiator around 4x4inch. Water passing through all fins will be cooled by the fans but obviously not as much as having a full shroud.

[GeckoXL7]

the flush i have is a mild one you drive for 300k then dump the oil but i did not want it in there that long. only driven about 60k and dumped the oil. Oil was still pretty thick. but black.


Oil affects lubrication poor lubrication = more heat generated under load.

[GeckoXL7]

I think my radiator is not the original? eg replaced for a 2.0 or 2.5L GV radiator? to me i always thought the extensions was odd. I bout the car with only 15,000k on the clock, did i by a lemon lol.... was just out of warranty that month.

Nothing really wrong with motor untill the waterpump so got a decent run out of it.

[atari4x4]

lol, your car is a complete cluster fuck & i'm certain you said that you've done the radiator previously?

are those "spacers" a section of heater hose & longer bolts.

[GeckoXL7]

Never touched radiator before, didnt say in service history when i bought it it was ever replaced but who knows the whole car seems to be a bitsa that was fitted with other model parts all over it. Was under warranty before so would of been done by a dealer eg city or southside.

The spacers are metal.

I just really want my xl-7 standard like other xl-7s, has a standard transmission and transfer now. now looks like i just need a standard radiator. Think after all this it should be alright.

Do i trust the dayco thermostat or should i go oem or something like a gates?

I was also thinking when i order the right radiator i will put a bracket around the whole radiator,aloy sheet boltedd to that. two holes for the fans and if i can fit larger ill put larger.

[GeckoXL7]

Mucrod, read your thread, thinking i might install a LED light in my cabin too to say when the fans are on. but considering im getting a digital Temprature controller with dual output that reads the temp and has a light when the relay is activated for cooling or heating i think that will be a good indication of when the fans are on. Im going to use this as the main control and the thermoswitch as a backup for when the coolant goes over 95. Ill have the digital controller set to 90 and off at 85.

I read that a engine is at its most efficient cruising on the highway at 105degree's and under load at 95. this is a study by Audi on electric mapped thermostats. Not sure about running my motor at 105? seems a bit high, i know under pressure increases the boiling point. but 105 is not far off it. waterless cooling bumps up the boiling point to 195 with out pressure.

[ninjamoses]

I say you take this guys advice...

GeckoXL7 wrote:

I just really want my xl-7 standard like other xl-7s

- Buy new larger XL7 radiator and refit oem shroud
- Refit standard viscous engine fan
- Enjoy a further 10+ years/200,000km of happy motoring with a proven/factory setup
- Profit?

I like mods as much as the next guy but this all seems like a hell of a lot of work and/or potential failure points for no real benefit.

[atari4x4]

welcome to gecko-land, where gimmicks are the future.

[JrZook]

Dang! How many brews did you have when you wired the accessories to the positive battery terminal. Looks factory

x2 to ninjas comments

[GeckoXL7]

lol its the vibrating of the fan that i think caused the failure of the waterpump or the final destruction of it.

I thought would give electric fans a shot as never had a issue on conversions before previous one lasted over 10 years before i sold it and still was going good for the i think next two owners untill im pretty sure it was crushed by a picture by the new Hooning laws, hard to miss the colour i painted it

[murcod]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

considering im getting a digital Temprature controller with dual output that reads the temp and has a light when the relay is activated for cooling or heating i think that will be a good indication of when the fans are on.

What controller is that? Be careful what you buy; as I discovered not all electronic devices work as advertised (Davies Craig EWP controller- the temp readout is totally out of wack and software is crap.)

I'm still a bit dubious about your fan/s being enough. They're either super efficient or not very powerful.... 8 Amps vs 25 Amps....

How on earth did your vehicle end up a "bitsa" at such a young age???? Repaired after a major accident???

[ninjamoses]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

lol its the vibrating of the fan that i think caused the failure of the waterpump or the final destruction of it.

In which case add this additional step to my post above
- Buy new engine fan/clutch hub

Reckon it'll still work out a country mile cheaper than electric fans/custom shrouds/controllers/wiring etc etc

PS: Please paint the strut brace black. Engine covers actually turned out pretty good. I can't say the same for the strut brace . At the very least paint it the same blue as the motor.