[bibby]

hey guys

I have a few front bars that are custom made and they all have a really good approach angle, but i also have a winch i want to mount. One option is mounting the winch under the tray with some kind of winch plate.
The second option would be to relocate my radiator to behind my cab and put a winch plate where the radiator sits now and just put a fair lead on my existing bar! which brings me to the question, is a rear mounted radiator road legal? i cant see why it wouldn't be?
If i was to mount it on the rear would i need an electric pump aswell as my water pump or would the water pump do?

which option do you think i should go for aswell?

sorry for all the questions and posts just alot is being done to the car at the moment, there will be a big update on my build with all of it soon.


Sam

[pezz]

or you could just remake the bar to fit the winch infront of the body... most of the time my shackles hit, not my bar

[Zook_Fan]

Or put the winch in the back and run the line up the chassis and out the front through your bar.

[bibby]

Pez: I would do that but my welding ability is rather limited so the less structural welding the better

And zook fan I was thinking of doing this but want to utilise as much length as I can, if I was to mount it on the rear I would just set it up as a rear winch!

[Zook_Fan]

What do you mean utilise as much length? If you are talking about rope you install the winch with a metre and a half of extra rope on it that you'll never spool in. Then you can put your dual battery in the back and have short winch leads with less voltage drop and most of the weight in the back.

And you haven't messed with your cooling system.

[bibby]

that seams like an idea, where would i run the rope without it being at risk of damage as under the car gets scraped and filthy etc?
i wasnt going to run a dual battery just have my optima and falcon alternator

[mnemonix]

There are no ADR/VSI's to cover radiator location, so nothing stopping you from legally mounting it anywhere that doesn't affect a different VSI, ie: external protrusions.

[Zook_Fan]

Comp guys just put eyelets down the inside of the chassis rail to direct it to the front and it's up out of the way.

[got_bar_work]

Or seamless pipe

[bibby]

I'll see what happens may just run an arb bar or something similar! Anyone know any particularaly good winch bars that have good aproach angle?

I have 2" body lift aswell so would need to bracket able to suit! I was looking at the defiant armour bar from lror with the long sides and both grill and headlight protection, coz it comes apart they car send it cheaper than a new arb bar!! What do youse recon?

[VitNick]

Anytime I've been out with people in Sierras and Tray backs their shackles have hit before the bar would. Just as Pezz said

[Gwagensteve]

I'll play, having done all of the things being discussed here.

I don't think the reason to run a winch set back is approach angle (unless it's an 8274) I think the reason is weight distribution and centre of gravity. Setting a winch back behind the grille brings the weight closer to being between the axles, which is always a win. It also potentially allows the winch to be set lower than if it was out the front (without impacting approach angle) It also gets it out of the weather.

I agree shackles hit before the front bar, unless you are talking about the corners, the position of which isn't affected by the winch location.

However, rear mounting a radiator is a tonne of work. Yes, you'll need a booster pump. Obviously you'll need thermo fans and appropriate relays and switching. You'll need to fab mounts, keep it protected from impact because it's, well, in the tray with your gear. All up it's complex, adds weight, adds loads of little things that can go wrong, and if the primary reason is to run a set back winch then it's a lot of work to create a lot of work for questionable advantage. I did it to run a bigger radiator, and keep the radiator out of the mud. It works very well, but took a fair bit of troubleshooting. It also has some quirks, like if the car gets hot on a steep hill, the thermal expansion in the head creates a steam pocket that opens the radiator cap, then ejects every drop of water out of the system due to the head of water sitting behind the cap. ( I think my system holds 10 litres of water or something - thats a lot of head pressure compared to stock.)

As for a rear mounted winch, well that's a bulk amount of work too. The left hand chassis rail is the only side that's clear enough to run cable down, but running a low mount offset to the left will mean the rope bunches on the drum on that side. On CJ's sierra build, we ran the winch rearwards first and then through two pullies to bring it forward down the LH rail, with a boat keel roller under the transfer case mount on the LH chassis rail. this allowed the rope to spool on the centre of the drum, but involved loads of custom structural fabrication. There's advantages (rearwards winching, better weight distribution, ability to run a high mount hidden away, etc) but the complexity, possibility of cable bunching and tangling, poor access to the winch, and poor access to the free spool are all factors that work against it.

I think most comp cars have now abandoned rear mounted winches due to frictional loss, difficult access for service etc and cable layup problems.

Perhaps the easiest way would be to run the winch fore aft (90˚ to the normal orientation) and then have one pulley to turn the rope down the rail. That would require maybe two new chassis crossmembers to be added and a very beefy pulley mount on the chassis. free spool would pretty much need to be air. ON a high mount it's not too hard to make a remote free spool as the rod travel is short, but with the near 180˚ throw of a low mount freepool it's pretty difficult.

You'll want the free pool to work as with the frictional loss through the rollers/pullies/guides, powering out will almost certainly result in a tangle.

[bibby]

Once again a great write up thanks gwagon pretty much set my mind that i will just be buying a winch compatible bar!
Is there any people would recommend? ARB? LROR?

And gwagon what are your thoughts on the LROR Defiant bar that i mentioned just before? http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki/s ... -road.html


Thanks again everyone for the helpful info

[Gwagensteve]

It looks OK for what it is.

I agree that the ability to buy it to suit a body lift is a huge advantage assuming you will be running one.

It won't be as strong as an ARB bar because of the bolt together construction. This will be most evident out at the ends - the leverage of a hit on the outside corner will tend to deform the mounting face for the ends. That's where my bar takes all its hits - the outside corners.

I like the look of the winch cradle.

However, if you are planning RUF, you might be undoing most of the advantage of that bar because the chassis extension means you're unlikely to keep the tube front crossmember or retain the factory relationship between the bumper mounting holes and the crossmember.

If you need to hack this up at all to work with your setup I'd save my money and look for a second hand ARB bar. I don't see it being all that much cheaper than an ARB bar landed considering currency and postage.

Steve.

[bibby]

Yeah i didn't think about RUF which i have already done and that was my main concerns the sides being bent in as that's exactly what i have seen happen to several xrox bars which are similarly bolted together!!

I think an ARB will be the go, now just to find one 2nd hand and buy the lift brackets!!
thanks for the info Steve!

[Gwagensteve]

Lift brackets?

[bibby]

i could be wrong but i remember being told a while back that for the ARB bar to suit 2" body you have to buy special brackets off them? or is the standard and one to suit 2" different?

[Gwagensteve]

To the best of my knowledge, there are no off the shelf brackets to fit an ARB bar to a Sierra with a body lift. ARB have never made a bar to suit a (any) car with a body lift.

[bibby]

Oh really I'll have to do some searching and see what I can do! Thanks again for the info

[Kor3y101]

There are tons of threads floating about showing how to add 2" to a bar to suit a body lift. Take it to any welding/fabrication shop around you locally and they should be able to knock something up pretty cheaply for you.

[bibby]

yeah mate i know people and can get that done no worries that isnt an issue, thanks anyways

[Gwagensteve]

Which is true Kor3y, except without adding strength to the end of the chassis, I wouldn't winch off of an ARB bar that's been raised for a BL. With the outriggers gone and 2" more leverage on the chassis, it's not a good outcome.

[Kor3y101]

^^ agreed.
This definitely goes without saying.