[Reubs]

Hi Auszookers,

I'm looking to upgrade my current Vitara to something more family friendly (more family friendly than a SWB soft-top anyway!) whilst still retaining some 4x4 awsomeness (be nice to retain existing lockers and gears!).

SQ series Vitaras appear to fit the bill - after searching I still seek answers to some questions.

First set of questions - I have an SE vitara transfercase (currently mated to a manual transmission if that helps) with Calmini 4.24 gears. A quick search indicates these gears are definitely compatible with all SQ auto Vits (upto 2005), but I'm seeing contradicting information regarding manual models.

Can I fit Calmini crawler gears in a manual J20 or H25 SQ Vit - even earlier models such as up-to 2001 model year?
Can I re-use the SE transfer case without having to break it open or would I need to swap the gears into the SQ transfer?

Thanks in advance, Reubs.

[Gwagensteve]

V6 manuals have a larger output shaft and the gears won’t work. I’m pretty sure j20 manuals are the same as 1.6, I’m almost certain a club member had crawler gears in a j20 manual.

[Zook_Fan]

There's a few photo's in here that were taken with a potato showing somewhat the differences between the V6 manual and the earlier transfer cases. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46549&start=30

The output is both a bigger diameter and longer. I had a custom set made up where I got a set of 4.24's then had the V6 input welded onto it. I only ran it hard long enough to break basically everything else in the driveline (one very short weekend) so not sure on the longevity but shouldn't be radically different than all those rocklobster sierra cases.

[fordem]

TrailTough (in the US) do a 3.0:1 reduction gear set that keeps the input gear and can be used when any of the SQ series transfer cases.

[Gwagensteve]

3.0 would feel like plenty. The vitaras I’ve seen with the 4.2 transfer gears were stupid low.

[suzukitas]

H25 and H27 manual gearboxes are different from all other SE, SV, and SQ gearboxes, hence they also have a unique transfer, which is quite different from the others.
So no your gears wont fit into a manual h25a transfer, and no your transfer wont bolt up to it either.
Only option is putting a sv620 gearbox in, and bringing up a hole heap of other issues.
Depending on why your after reduction one of the cheapest options for larger wheels is to change diff ratios(standard 4.3) to either 4.874 or 5.125

[suzukitas]

As for the manual SQ420 GV j20a, it would be very possible to put your transfer straight in with but most likely not limited to swapping the speedo sensor and rear shaft spline end.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm going to challenge the idea that an SQ GV is a logical step beyond a SWB vitara.

The loss of capability will be very marked. They are a significantly bulkier, lower, heavier vehicle, and are heavily limited on tyre size. The V6 also really needs the auto to calm it down - it's a short stroke motor and very hard to modulate off road.

Mostly they're nearing the end of their service life now. The seats, in particular, seem to self destruct, especially in older cars. and if you get a J20 or V6 auto you'll need to go to a 26 spline steel front diff to have any chance of holding the front end together, at which point it will be eating CV's.

Whilst you will, at some level, be able to retain your lockers and gears, A V6 GV driven in the manner you're accustomed to will make short work of it's driveline. I think if you want to retain off road ability and take the family along, a GV isn't a great solution.

[Reubs]

Thanks all for your time in replying to the questions.

Fordem & Gwagensteve, I'll keep the 3.0 gear set in my mind - I didn't know it existed. Yes Gwagen 4.24 in a Vit is low but certainly better than standard gears.

Zook_Fan, sorry to hear your GV was parted out - I think I remember seeing it at a 4x4 park back in the day. Your build thread has been a helpful read.

Suzukitas, thanks for that - SQ420 manual was more what I was hoping to lean towards.

Gwagensteve, I'm glad you have challenged the idea of an SQ - I didn't realise the increase in mass was so large for the GV over the SE. Mass I have for SQ625 is 1405kg for auto or manual. That is quite a bit heavier than I was expecting...

Vehicle mass (kg) from a quick bit of research:
sq625 lwb man/aut 1405
sq420 lwb aut 1375
sq420 lwb man 1355
sv620 lwb man 1310
sv620 lwb aut 1330
se416 lwb aut 1200
se416 lwb man 1180
se416 swb man 1030

As for tyre size - was thinking 205R16 as a compromise between size, price, availability, ability, and won't look overly big. I am worried 225/75R16 would get too much attention and could cause some fitment and long-term reliability issues. Good heads up on the auto and modulating power offroad. My partner wanted me to get a manual oddly enough but with no particular reason why apart from a perception of reliability which I don't think holds true for autos in Vits/GVs other than the original Vit trimatics. For me a manual is simply about economy.

As for SQs at the end of their service life, I know it is almost a joke with prices being asked for Suzukis with 250,000+km on the clock. Thanks for the heads up on seats. I already have a front steel 26 spline diff in my SWB so the idea was to swap it in too. I currently have 4.875 diffs in my SWB, with a set of 5.125 in my LWB that I was thinking to match together. I see the H25 is 230Nm... yeah that's bit more torque than a light driveline on a medium weight vehicle would find optimal. I see the H20 is only 175Nm, so I might need to rename this thread SV noob questions!

A bit more background about the purpose of this vehicle as there will be more questions to follow:- Currently we daily drive a 100 series turbo getting 11L/100km. It's a great family car but it's too valuable to sit outdoors at work all day and accumulate 750+km of commuting per week. A SWB Vitara gets about the same economy in real dollars, doesn't worry if it gets sun damaged or dented but isn't ideal for a rearward facing child seat on the daily. Servicing on the Suzuki is done by me but we get the Toyotas serviced at Toyota so 'costs'! I do have a LWB SE416 in the shed which in theory could be cleaned up and restored cheaply but my partner doesn't like it for a variety of reasons. We're also hoping to get back into beach camping now we are 3 in the family over the next year or so. I love having a car which is very capable but one which I also don't have to worry in case of minor cosmetic damage.

[Gwagensteve]

205R16 is an 85 profile tyre so it's 29" tall.
225 75 16 is taller at 29.4" tall They look fine on GV's

205's are pretty uncommon now since toyota and land rover stopped using them, in my opinion.

I can't see the point in buying an SV420 if you already own an SE416.

I completely understand the goal, I'm just not sure a GV fits the job.

[shakes]

Owned an SQ625 until the timing chain decided it wanted to make the pistons and valves come together in a glorious mess.
Not sure I'd buy another for this exact reason. And definitely not one with out history or plans to swap the chain and tensioners ASAP.

I wouldn't go manual. Auto kept my CV's intact compared to a mate in a manual. Fuel was on par with a mate in a manual too.
18-20ltrs/100km when fully loaded for family camping. It was tight with 3 people using large 4wd camping stuff. If you use hiking gear it will be ok.
14ltr/100km general driving.
Steel diff, with a sierra centre shoehorned in. + CV support bush is needed to keep the front together. Do a locker at the same time.
245/75/16 fitted easily with some minor trimming and massaging of seams. Looked proportional. 225/75/16 i belly'd out in the ruts left by patrols.
Ideally needed 5.125 diff gears. Auto soaked up some of the difference offroad and 'i got away with it' wasn't pretty sometimes.
Still needed bash plates as it was just too low on harder tracks / big ruts.
No issues driving the vic high country.

Buy a corolla for the commute. Enjoy the cruiser for family trips. SE416 for trips that your worried about damage/salt/etc.

[Gwagensteve]

^this all day.

[Reubs]

Thanks Gwagen,

Thought about the 205R16s as they are advertised cheap - I haven't actually tried to source a new set though. I'm trying to avoid setting up a vehicle which looks like it has big tyres - hence the skinny 205R16. I actually have a set of both sizes here for comparison.

What vehicles do you think might fit the bill? My budget was about 6-8K but if I sell lockers and gears etc I could push that to 10.

Thanks Shakes,

Yeah we camp with a lot of lightweight/hiking gear. My partner and I did Fraser 3 times (up to 3 nights beach camping each time) in the year before our child was born and we were pretty happy with our tetris packing skills. A LWB Vit and roof space would be heaps for us.

14l/100km is not ideal with our daily commute both from cost perspective and it's no better than the SE LWB and 55L tank with about 400km to empty - J20 owners appear to get OK economy. I wonder if the H20 economy is closer to the 11L/100km I'm used to getting in the SE LWB, although I don't intend to be running 245/75 so that would help a bit.

Strangely enough you mention getting a corolla!!! - yes I did initially suggest that to my partner but we are looking to downsize from 4/5 (regoed/unreg'd) vehicles to just 2 - Landcruiser 100 (for long trips and towing) and something else for everything else.

Watch this space I guess - if I go down the route of restoring my LWB SE416 things could get interesting!

[fordem]

I believe the H20a economy is worse than the J20a, at least, the models we got out here which weren't fitted with O2 sensors.