[GV6]

Hi Fellas,

I have a 2003 GV SQ625 with a 30mm spring / shock lift.

I got Pedder's to install a camber bolt kit for the front struts which has brought the camber alignment back to slightly neg, but ever since I bought the GV its directional stability has been hopeless if the road's camber is different on each side of the car.

e.g. -
When on the highway, changing lanes, just as the last tyre crosses the centreline of the road into the new lane, the car swoops toward the lane I'm changing into and then straightens out once all wheels are sitting on the same road camber.

(this happens changing from left to right lane, and also when changing from right to left lane).

It's quite disconcerting and happens on road repair sections too.

I was hoping that Pedder's wheel alignment would help, and really I don't think its much better than before.

Tyre pressures are 28PSI all round, tyres all look in good condition, no play in steering or suspension that I can see.


The wheel alignment settings Pedder's reported after the camber bolts were installed are -

Fr Camber Left -0.6
Fr Camber right -0.2
Front Castor left +2.0
Front Castor right +2.7
Front toe in Left +1.2
Front toe in Right +0.8

Do you think the toe setting is a bit excessive (even tho it is just within spec) ?

Have other's had this steering swoop thing happen when changing lanes, and what resolved the issue ?

Regards
Scott

[royce]

Is that toe saying you have a total of 2mm toe IN or 2mm toe OUT

if its toe out I would think thats not helping

what brand struts do you have and how old?

[GV6]

royce wrote:

Is that toe saying you have a total of 2mm toe IN or 2mm toe OUT

if its toe out I would think thats not helping

what brand struts do you have and how old?

On the printout it's quoted as Toe In yes +2mm total.

Ironman struts approx 3month old,

the swoopy lane change also happened before the struts / suspension were changed to ironman (from original struts), I wanted to do the lift before getting the wheel alignment, so I wasn't doing the alignment twice.

Looks like I will be getting another alignment soon .....

[royce]

if the wheels are pointing towards the center of the car it probably isnt a drama, if they are pointing out it might make it skittish


To be honest, my Vitara does it a bit, all my sierras have done it, I used to drive a 4 runner a bit that was terrible for it to teh point that you would hold the wheel in different positions based on leaving the lane, being across both lanes and then in the other lane, I thnk its one of them things you gwt used to

[GV6]

royce wrote:

if the wheels are pointing towards the center of the car it probably isnt a drama, if they are pointing out it might make it skittish


To be honest, my Vitara does it a bit, all my sierras have done it, I used to drive a 4 runner a bit that was terrible for it to teh point that you would hold the wheel in different positions based on leaving the lane, being across both lanes and then in the other lane, I thnk its one of them things you gwt used to

I'm probably struggling with the change from Euro cars that don't display this tendency.

[royce]

GV6 wrote:

royce wrote:

if the wheels are pointing towards the center of the car it probably isnt a drama, if they are pointing out it might make it skittish


To be honest, my Vitara does it a bit, all my sierras have done it, I used to drive a 4 runner a bit that was terrible for it to teh point that you would hold the wheel in different positions based on leaving the lane, being across both lanes and then in the other lane, I thnk its one of them things you gwt used to

I'm probably struggling with the change from Euro cars that don't display this tendency.

Any car will be a lot nicer, wider, lower, thinner sidewalls in the tyres etc.

[ball]

Try pumping your tyres up to the maximum recommended pressure and see if it makes a difference.

I know my poxy work ute drives like a boat when the tyres are a bit down.

[GV6]

ball wrote:

Try pumping your tyres up to the maximum recommended pressure and see if it makes a difference.

I know my poxy work ute drives like a boat when the tyres are a bit down.

Will give it a go on the weekend.

[wolf_rt]

In my experience stay away from that shop.... no bull! I have seen some of the scariest suspension set ups to ever grace the road come out of the local bull artists.

could well be wrong here, but shouldn't there be more camber on the RHS than the LHS? to keep the tires more square to the road? after all the LHS of the road is on more of an angle?

[sirbob]

Toe in looks wrong? Shouldn't it be toe out for front, which is negative?

My lifted GV never had these issues. Definitely recommend getting anotjer alignment from someone who knows what they are doing. Sm

[fordem]

sirbob wrote:

Toe in looks wrong? Shouldn't it be toe out for front, which is negative?

As a general rule - toe out for front wheel drive, toe in for rear wheel and part time four wheel drive.

GV6 wrote:

Hi Fellas,

I have a 2003 GV SQ625 with a 30mm spring / shock lift.

I got Pedder's to install a camber bolt kit for the front struts which has brought the camber alignment back to slightly neg, but ever since I bought the GV its directional stability has been hopeless if the road's camber is different on each side of the car.

e.g. -
When on the highway, changing lanes, just as the last tyre crosses the centreline of the road into the new lane, the car swoops toward the lane I'm changing into and then straightens out once all wheels are sitting on the same road camber.

(this happens changing from left to right lane, and also when changing from right to left lane).

You almost certainly have some play in the steering and/or front suspension, and I suspect the toe to be incorrectly set - I believe you'll find it has very little to do with the camber of the road and more to do with the position of the steering relative t the straight ahead position.

Find a multi-lane road (a road with four lanes should have two either side of the center or crown and there should be no camber change between the two lanes left of center or the two lanes right of center) and do a lane change between the extreme left lane and the one next to it - see if the problem occurs (I suspect it will), and if it does the problem has nothing to do with the camber of the road surface, but is caused by play and/or incorrect toe.

If it doesn't occur, move one lane further right, and repeat until you cross the crown of the road and the camber of the surface changes, if the problem occurs now, then I'm wrong.

[dhula]

GV6 wrote:

The wheel alignment settings Pedder's reported after the camber bolts were installed are -

Fr Camber Left -0.6
Fr Camber right -0.2
Front Castor left +2.0
Front Castor right +2.7
Front toe in Left +1.2
Front toe in Right +0.8

According to the user manual for my 2002 GV (I'm presuming a 2002 and 2003 will have the same settings)
Camber = 0
Caster = 2.7 degrees (or 2 degress, 40 and a bit minutes)
Toe = 0mm plus/minus 2mm

According to the wksp manual I have
Camber = 0 plus/minus 1 degree
Caster = 2 degrees, 40 minutes. (or 2.666666667 degress)
Toe = 0mm plus/minus 2mm

So the reading you've been given are within spec (just) but one thing of note is that they are not very close to even side to side which can be the cause of funny steering in one direction compared to the other.
One thing I would do is go back to your pedders shop and ask for a redo and to get it to spec (not "within spec" and even side to side). I don't think caster is adjustable so it may mean that something is bent or worn and could mean replacement of some parts to bring it into line.
Another thing to look out for is the tyre pressure they use to do the alignment compared to the tyre pressure you usually use. My rule of thumb is to make sure they align with the pressure you use.

Pumping up the tyres will also help with directional stability but if you go to high in pressure it can make it skittish so it is a compromise. As an example, I am currently using 36psi allround but may change that depending on other factors.

[GV6]

fordem wrote:

Find a multi-lane road (a road with four lanes should have two either side of the center or crown and there should be no camber change between the two lanes left of center or the two lanes right of center) and do a lane change between the extreme left lane and the one next to it - see if the problem occurs (I suspect it will), and if it does the problem has nothing to do with the camber of the road surface, but is caused by play and/or incorrect toe.

If it doesn't occur, move one lane further right, and repeat until you cross the crown of the road and the camber of the surface changes, if the problem occurs now, then I'm wrong.

Yep, done this test already, and where there is no camber change of the road surface there is no problem,

the problem only arises when there is a change of camber on the road surface, and it only happens when -

e.g. say i'm changing from left to right lane (over the crest of the road / camber change) ,

the right side wheels travel over the initial camber change (crest of road) without issue,

I proceed to enter the next lane without issue,

and just as the left wheels cross the crest of the road / camber change, that's when the car swoops toward the right,

and once all wheels are on the same road camber, the car settles to straight ahead.

[GV6]

Thanks Dhula for your info, and as other's have said, not sure if I'll go back to pedders.

Will try higher tyre pressures first, and then re-align as you mention (to spec, rather than within spec).

Regards
Scott

[royce]

if its not till you are fully over the camber of the road its just weight transfer, car is now leaning the other way

[GV6]

royce wrote:

if its not till you are fully over the camber of the road its just weight transfer, car is now leaning the other way

Since it only happens when the last set of tyres cross the change in road camber, I would expect that most of the weight has already shifted to the other side of the vehicle (since there is negligible height difference between being one tyre width from the crest of the road, compared to having the tyre crossing the crest of the road).

I can attempt to change lanes as slow as possible, having nearly all of the vehicle in the next lane before it will suddenly swoop across when that last set of tyres crosses the crest of the road.

I don't believe its as simple as weight transfer, the car actually steers itself into the lane I'm changing into, as described in the post above, it is rather abrupt.



I'm thinking it may be possible that too much toe in could be giving extra effect to the last set of wheels to cross the crest of the road (maybe due to higher contact pressure of the tyre on that crest, like an ice skate's blade, well not an ice skate's blade, but you know what I'm getting at ) ?

Pdf attached.

[Built4thrashing]

Something you prob havent thought of is the rear panhard rod bushes. If the bushes are flogged out the rear diff will wander with change of weight.

also check the trailing are bushes in the rear end

[GV6]

Built4thrashing wrote:

Something you prob havent thought of is the rear panhard rod bushes. If the bushes are flogged out the rear diff will wander with change of weight.

also check the trailing are bushes in the rear end

Will have a good look at this on the weekend.

Hopefully a "proper look" will find something.

Regards
Scott

[Chop]

Just out of curiosity, is your 30mm lift pedders? Mine when i got it had what looked to be red pedders springs in it, and it was only small lift. They were shit and my car would wallow all over the place, changing lanes at speed was rubbish.

[GV6]

Chop wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is your 30mm lift pedders? Mine when i got it had what looked to be red pedders springs in it, and it was only small lift. They were shit and my car would wallow all over the place, changing lanes at speed was rubbish.

ironman as stated in post 3 above.

[GV6]

Finally had a good look at the suspension.

Found that it actually had about 4.5 mm toe in, adjusted it back to dead ahead (within 0.5mm), and this has drastically reduced the swoopy steering response when crossing road camber changes. (If I was to quantify the amount of the swoopy steering response, it's now feels less than 1/4 of what it used to be - so this is a good start).

Suspension bushes seem pretty good, but there is one part that has some play, the lower steering shaft assembly.

There is a rubber bush that interlocks with the other section of the steering assembly (between the two universals), is this part serviceable, or is it the whole lower steering shaft assembly that I need ?

Any idea how much they charge for this part ?

Best place to get one ? (I am in Sunshine Coast QLD, near Brisbane)

Regards
Scott