Really? The fact suspension can move up and down is confusing? Maybe you're not the best person to be advising your mate on how to build his car.
Suspension has compression and droop. A car built for speed will normally have about 50% compression and 50% droop at ride height. The trail slayer has about 10% compression and 90% droop. My car is closer to 30% compression, 70% droop. It all depends on intended use.
Really? The fact suspension can move up and down is confusing? Maybe you're not the best person to be advising your mate on how to build his car.
Suspension has compression and droop. A car built for speed will normally have about 50% compression and 50% droop at ride height. The trail slayer has about 10% compression and 90% droop. My car is closer to 30% compression, 70% droop. It all depends on intended use.
Steve.
if yours is better which it may be as I told you I like your tray back. how much for you to come do to his what you did to yours? Or I will give you his number you ring him and convince him go back to 2 inch soft springs like i tried days ago.
Really? The fact suspension can move up and down is confusing? Maybe you're not the best person to be advising your mate on how to build his car.
Suspension has compression and droop. A car built for speed will normally have about 50% compression and 50% droop at ride height. The trail slayer has about 10% compression and 90% droop. My car is closer to 30% compression, 70% droop. It all depends on intended use.
Steve.
if yours is better which it may be as I told you I like your tray back. how much for you to come do to his what you did to yours? Or I will give you his number you ring him and convince him go back to 2 inch soft springs like i tried days ago.
That's your problem to sort out. I have enough projects of my own thanks.
The trail slayer doesn't have proper bumpstops - it uses the tiny rubber bumps on the shock shafts as bumpstops. These are OK for crawling, but they are not designed for speed. There is no room in the design of the trail slayer for proper progressive bumpstops.
See this photo of a trail slayer kit installed:
Now have a look at how much shock shaft you can see. That's about 1". Now imagine driving along at speed and hitting a 2" tall tree root on the ground. The axle will move up and hit the bumpstop on the shock shaft. Then that force will be transmitted into the chassis, forcing that upwards. That means you get a rough ride, prossibly worse than even the calmini stuff in there now. Now imagine hitting an 8" deep melon hole.
You can measure how much compression travel your cruiser has easily enough, but I imagine it's around 5"
And its not a project offer its a job offer come up slap it in have a holiday in the gulf. You like fishing or hunting or both? His house is at the mouth of the norman river with his own jetti he has a few big groper that he feeds at his wharf be a show if you hook 1 of them. He has access to the black fella country up here for pigs
For goodness sake pig mad, I don't want a job, I don't want a holiday, I don't want to build your mates car. I don't want to sell my "tray back." I don't want to go pig shootin' and fishin' with you. I'm just trying to improve your understanding of suspension so your mate ends up with something that's appropriate for his use.
Quote:
so what if you put a smaller shock in there?
See the little tiny white lumps on the shock shaft in that photo? The LHS one has dropped down against the shock body and the RHS one is sitting up near the mounting eye. They're the bumpstops. If you fit a shorter shock, the axle will be able to move upwards more. That will cause all or some of the following things to happen:
The tie rod and drag link bind, hit the pitman arm, or the chassis. The axle housing to hit the chassis The rear top link brackets to hit the fuel tank The front driveashaft to hit the gearbox or sump The front diff centre to hit the chassis The springs to bind*
None of these things are all that awesome, and they are the same things that might/could happen if you took the bumpstops off of your landcruiser and then took off through the scrub. You'll break it.
*Binding springs is a big problem because it's like metal on metal contact - as though there was no bumpstop. You can't fit progressive bumpstops to the trail slayer like your landcruiser has because there is no compression travel for them to work in. You might be able to buy/have made longer springs that sit the car up higher, but longer springs means more turns of thicker wire, which might mean the springs bind on full compression, so you have to space your bumpstops downwards, eating into the compression travel you gained with the longer springs.
Sure, you could completely reengineer this kit to allow a higher static ride height (not that you'd want that, really) and therefore more compression travel, or alternatively, cut the chassis to allow the axle to travel up more, but this is a massive amount of work on top of a kit that was supposed to be "easy" and in any case, foam cell shocks are no good for speed work, and as they are acting as the bumpstops (and there are only two shocks available that have these integral bumpstops and neither of them are designed for anything except crawling) you'd need to engineer proper bumpstops into the design of the kit.
If your mate buys this kit and you install it, it's going to shake him and the car to pieces, you'll break the shocks, the car will be heavy, slow, wide and difficult to manoeuvre compared to what he has now. Thats because, like I've been saying since you starting asking, this kit wasn't designed for your use. This kit was 100% designed around crawling. Have I said that before? did you notice me saying it before? Do you need me to write another great big post with another set of explanations about how this kit was designed for crawling not charging around the scrub chasing pigs?
If you put a pig on the back of that trail slayer car you'd be driving along like it had no suspension at all. It's not designed for carrying anything at all. That's because it's designed for crawling.
I'm quite sure you could buy that kit, some 14" travel coil overs, a heap of different coils, valving kits for the shocks, nitrogen and manifolding, some air bumps, sway bars, and come up with some compromise that rode OK, but it's going to be a massive amount of work and $$ for something that's going to be very maintenance intensive, take lots of tuning to get right, and you'll still end up throwing a lot of that trail slayer kit away and keeping some of the brackets and links. It's also going to be tall and feel like a very big and heavy car compared to a Sierra with Sierra axles under it. That's because it's going to be the size and height of a lifted Hilux, except it's going to have no power and be 500 times more work.
All up, a pointless way of blowing a mountain of cash. Kicking the windows out of a vitara would provide a huge improvement in performance for 10% of the money of building all that.
Perhaps your mate can explain why he wants coils so badly he doesn't care how badly his car will work once he's fitted them? This is pretty common though, it's at least part of the reason Calmini sell those 5.5" kits - people want 5.5" of lift regardless of what the car drives like after it's done.
No seriously all you had to do was show me that pic I didnt understand compression travel and all the technical jargen pictures and simple explanations works. Was hard to understand why you were saying 1 inch travel but all the pics I saw were like a foot up on 1 wheel I now understand what you mean by compresion travel. And I do understand why you say its alot of work to alter it and honestly I wouldnt purely because i dont chase pigs flat out I dont shoot I hunt with dogs I hunt at 20 to 40km/hr on roads and run in on foot when they catch but its not my money its not my car like I said at the start I am just here to do the home work for a real good mate I have passed every bit of info on that I have collected from here I dont know why he is obsesed with coils as I tell him nothing is going to work but he is insisting on trying. My attempt to buy your car was for me I want a little tray back for wet season hunting. My attempt to get you involved in this build is to save me the drama hahaha pigs and fish is usualy a good bribe for you city cowboys and your knowledge far exceeds mine so take it as a complement and move on. I found some hydraulic bump.stops today on the net are they any good??
In all seriouness this /\ is what he needs. It is close to factory 80 series suspenion and simply running triple bypass shocks and will soak up bumps easily at 100 + kph. Below is a similar setup on a Sierra.
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:41 pm Posts: 7
Vehicle: Swift Gti - Sierra
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:34 pm
My sierra runs the trail slayer kit i bought it that way.
The problem i see with the kit is the people who install it. The top of the suspension mount is not mounted high enough so the kit runs out of upward travel. If you install the suspension mount higher the shock runs more in the middle of the working area of the shaft. Due to the length of the body of the shock needs to be mounted that high its in the engine bay but the flip side is also due to the length of the body it still has huge downward travel. My rear has about 3 inches upward movement when sitting level which is fine but the front has been poorly thought about and the top suspension mount is too low about an inch so i currently run shorter shocks at the moment till i feel like fixing some one work.
All in all it seems like a ok kit but you need to make sure the person installing it has a brain or knows what they are doing or you will end up with little upward travel and while I'm at it bump stops on the top of shocks is fine but you do need to make sure your shock does have enough travel in both directions to do what it needs to do.
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:47 am Posts: 302
Vehicle: 92 WT Sierra
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:15 pm
Why are you so keen on coilovers, lots of good info above^. You can find lots of examples where people have not taken some very good advice and their build thread often reflects it, with an unfinished project getting parted out because it either sucks or they gave up
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