[weaves]

Hi guys,

i haven't looked to far into this ( i did search here but the only thread i found was a fair bit off topic), but i was curious if anyone had legally mounted a child seat to a zook before.

Its not a everyday thing, the mrs has her car which will be used as primary transport for 99.9% of the time.

i'm selling off my falcon as i'm very much over it, and i'm sick of not being in a 4wd. And im looking for something a bit more family friendly (searching for a old v8 f series with a bench seat ).

but until that car falls into my hands, i was thinking of putting the zook back on the road for me to commute to work and the gun club.

The safety issued raised in the other thread doesn't worry me, as it will be very odd occasions the child would be in the car. Ie, emergency times when he needs to be picked up ect. And as he gets a stronger and can be in a foward facing position, possibly a cruise up the beach.

cheers Weaves

[alien]

By zook - you mean sierra?

I believe the rear seats have the provision for it, though in my case with no rear seats i would be left with the passenger front. I'd pick up one of the seat anchor bolts as a fitting point. I would strongly suggest though that you take it to a professional fitter, as I believe in certain circumstances that if a new anchor is installed it needs to be certified / mod plated?

My personal opinion is that the front seat is way safer than the rear in a sierra, particularly in the event of a rollover. The rear is utterly unprotected where at least up front you have the B pillar, doors, and full height seat. This would tend to be against the current legislation regarding children in the front seat, though i'm sure if the case were made you'd fall under special circumstances.

[weaves]

i've edited it now to show sierra,

here in nsw you can have a child seat fitted to the front seat of utes (some new cars have the ability to turn off passenger airbags for this reason). Maybe i'll be better off with no rear seats at all, and i can add and remove the need arises. The safety reasons you list are enough for me to risk the fine if its not technically allowed.

i'll definately be talking to a professional before fitting a seat, but i thought someone on here may have already been through it, and had a simple answer.

[alien]

buzbox is a fitter - maybe someone on here can PM you his mobile number?

[buzbox]

Yes you can fit a baby seat in rear seats of the sierra. And ONLY in the rear seats.

As for when to have him forward facing, Try to keep them rear facing for as long as possible!!!!
Legally they can go forward facing at 6mths, which I think it fkn ridiculous. They usually don't have the neck strength and the cartiladge in their spine doesn't begin to harden until at least 2 years of age. Also the simple fact that their skeletal structure is very fragile, still developing and the seat is supporting their body if you were in a crash or simply for whatever reason that you have to slam the brakes.

The main trick of the trade I can give is to make the seatbelt "too short" so you can't just clip it in without having to put your knee into it.

If you have any questions by all means shoot me a PM.

[alien]

How come you cant fit in the front? Mines registered as a 2-seater so surely it's viable? Or is it from an anchor point perspective?

[weaves]

buzbox wrote:

:D

Yes you can fit a baby seat in rear seats of the sierra. And ONLY in the rear seats.

As for when to have him forward facing, Try to keep them rear facing for as long as possible!!!!
Legally they can go forward facing at 6mths, which I think it fkn ridiculous. They usually don't have the neck strength and the cartiladge in their spine doesn't begin to harden until at least 2 years of age. Also the simple fact that their skeletal structure is very fragile, still developing and the seat is supporting their body if you were in a crash or simply for whatever reason that you have to slam the brakes.

The main trick of the trade I can give is to make the seatbelt "too short" so you can't just clip it in without having to put your knee into it.

If you have any questions by all means shoot me a PM.

Thanks Buzbox, exactly the info i was after.

just needed to know i wasn't pushing shit up hill from the start. I'll shoot you a PM later with a couple of questions i have.

i also agree 100% about leaving them rear facing as long as humanly possible. And with the size of my kid, i reckon he will be able to be rear facing for quite a long time yet. the smallest setting on the capsule is still way to high for his shoulders

[alien]

We swapped my daughter around to front facing at 1year - she started cracking the shits looking at the seat and wanted to see us / ahead.

Please ask buzbox questions here - this will all come in handy for me at some point. Even if i don't set it up it's good to know!

[buzbox]

alien wrote:

How come you cant fit in the front? Mines registered as a 2-seater so surely it's viable? Or is it from an anchor point perspective?

Not many cars do allow kids seats in the front seat, over the past 5-6yrs I've only ever fitted 3 seats on the front seat as it's the only seat available, Holden Ute, Mercedes convertible, and an astra convertible.
The only time you can have a kid in the front seat is only if all other seats with anchor point locations are occupied by other kids, and the eldest is only allowed in the front. In a Sierra, the front don't have anchor point locations. Sure it's easy enough to drill a hole and sandwich plate an anchor bolt in, just think if the worst were to happen, is it really worth it?



Now my personal opinion and it's a little contradictory to what I have to say. I know with Sierra's the back seat would be the least safest place for a kid to be if it were to go flop.

So theoretically, and I would strongly advise against it, and enter at your own risk... nudge nudge wink wink... If someone were to not have any rear seats with anchor point locations and had no other choice but to put them in the front seat and there just happens to be a 9mm hole no less than 200mm away from the front of the seat and is within the centre line of the seating position just happened to be there, and coincidentally an anchor bolt kit to the floor or other structural part of the car's body and not torqued to no more than 20Nm is fitted. It could possibly maybe be acceptable by most auto engineer's.

The one issue that you will find is depending on the kid's seat if it has a single line tether strap (for eg, infa secure forward facing) or a V style tether strap (Safe & Sound) The V style tether strap would have a tendency to slide off the sides of the seat, so a couple of options here. Either an extension belt may be required or I hate doing it as it should be unassisted, but feeding it in between the headrest. Personally I'd go the 300mm extension strap. One thing I will stress though, is the anchor point should be one of the least things to worry about, yes it does prevent excessive forward movement, but it's the seat belt that does all the work. If you just click it in through the seat there will be ALOT of lateral movement, the idea is to minimise this movement by using a locking clip of 3 bar gated buckle, basically if it has more than 2"of sideways movement it's not safe enough for my liking. Also the fact that the 15yo+ standard seatbelt would have seen better days.

Oh and RECARO baby capsules and booster seats will be released in Oz in August.

[alien]

RECARO kids seats??? That'd be $$$!

In my case, i'd want to change my actual seats - as the cheap bucket seats I have in right now have questionable at best mounting brackets. I've already had to have one re-welded because the chinese factory weld broke.

Upshot of bucket seats though, is you have the belt holes to route the straps through =)

[weaves]

buzbox wrote:

One thing I will stress though, is the anchor point should be one of the least things to worry about, yes it does prevent excessive forward movement, but it's the seat belt that does all the work. If you just click it in through the seat there will be ALOT of lateral movement, the idea is to minimise this movement by using a locking clip of 3 bar gated buckle, basically if it has more than 2"of sideways movement it's not safe enough for my liking.

Wow this suprises me.

with our steelcraft capsule setup, would the seat belt theoretically still do all the work in the event of a crash? the seatbelt only restraines the back of the base (very poorly at that).

it was professionally fitted but due to the shape of the seat, we have had to pack a towel in the bottom of the seat to reduce the movement. It feels much more stable now.

what sort of companies would usually sell the 3 bar gated buckle?

cheers Weaves

[jdk81]

My daughter faced backwards till about 2 or so.
To the point where there were legs and shit flailing everywhere.

In the sierra it was very easy to put her in the back when facing backwards.
There was very little of her seat/person above the tub line, I had a roll bar and canopy to keep out the weather.

I fitted an anchor point to the floor and had the seat really strapped in tight.
Recently (because of a small tear in the seat) I found my '91 rear seats have the anchor attachment in them.
It's near the mount for the strap which keeps the seats secured when folded up.
I still prefer the rear floor mount.

It was ok when forward facing in the rear, as she could climb in and buckle herself up.
I pulled the two rear seats, and she rides in the front.
I ran the strap through the headrest of the baleno seats.
She loves being able to see the road etc.

Shes in a booster now (6.5 yrs old) and it sucks.
It has very little support, meaning she can hit her head on the window if it gets a bit bumpy.
I kept her in the 0-4yr seat until she was 5 as she was small enough.
The 0-4 seat was very comfy and supportive, and restrained her very well.
Most booster seats are terrible.

I added extra straps and clips to the booster seat in the Mrs mini. Its a foldable booster seat, as it doesn't get used often, but it's shit.
The booster seat would flop around and it got really annoying, I don't know how it passed the ADRs.

The little one has always loved riding the sierras.

[buzbox]

weaves wrote:

buzbox wrote:

One thing I will stress though, is the anchor point should be one of the least things to worry about, yes it does prevent excessive forward movement, but it's the seat belt that does all the work. If you just click it in through the seat there will be ALOT of lateral movement, the idea is to minimise this movement by using a locking clip of 3 bar gated buckle, basically if it has more than 2"of sideways movement it's not safe enough for my liking.

Wow this suprises me.

with our steelcraft capsule setup, would the seat belt theoretically still do all the work in the event of a crash? the seatbelt only restraines the back of the base (very poorly at that).

it was professionally fitted but due to the shape of the seat, we have had to pack a towel in the bottom of the seat to reduce the movement. It feels much more stable now.

what sort of companies would usually sell the 3 bar gated buckle?

cheers Weaves

Yep, regardless if it's a capsule, or seat (except booster's) the seat belt is what holds it in and should prevent any movement. The top tether strap is to stop it from moving forward from the top. In some European countries they don't even have tether straps in particular the capsules, and some of the designs are actually better than what we have available we just don't get them because without the tether strap they do not comply with aussie regulations.

For example the Maxi Cosi capsule, it's one of 'Merica and Europes best selling capsule, for it to comply all that was needed was a strap around the capsule that is secured by a plastic Christmas tree clip because unlike the steelcraft capsules it has slots for the tether to feed into.

You can buy the 3 bar gated buckle from repco, there's 2 types a flat one and one with a hump. The flat one is used the same way as the raised bar, just that the raised bar one needs to go on a certain way.

And just to give you an idea, this is how to use a gated buckle.

First grab the belt and join them together. The buckle should be placed as close to the fixed side of the belt as possible as not to interfere with the child restraint.



Just so it's easier to adjust, I put the hump facing up and feed the belts through the opening.



Feed the other side through. The retractor side of the belt should be on top, pull it to make it sit tightly on the buckle.



Feed the belt through the back of the child seat.
Put your knee into the seat and push down with your body weight. If you clip it in too easily, re-adjust the top belt through the buckle.
Repete process until you struggle to clip the seat belt in.
Make sure the tether strap is straight and clip it onto the anchor point.
Tighten the tether strap and very important!! make sure the left over tether strap is wrapped up. It has happened before and will happen again, It may get caught under the tyre if dangled outside the car.

If you have a lap only belt, sweet you don't need the buckle but the same process applies. Adjust it so it's too short, put your knee into it and struggle to clip it in.

[buzbox]

Oh as for the recaro seats, if it's priced anything like the American market. Happy days, US$139 for the booster US$249.99 for the capsule
AAANNDDD the stroller will be available too.

Those 2 models will be available in August but hopefully they'll release the other's once they pass Aussie testing.
American Toy's R US page --> http://www.toysrus.com/family/index.jsp ... gkw=recaro

[alien]

Very reasonable! I wonder if that pricing model will hold once it cops the Australia tax?

[weaves]

so i picked up one of the 3 bar buckles through the week from Ripco ($20 there or $6.00 from the overpriced baby store down the road). Fitted it up tonight and it fixed everything i had issues with.

the seat is lucky to move side to side at all, it took a little bit of fiddling to work out how to make it sit right, but its all sorted and i couldnt be happier.

thanks for all the info Buzbox

[buzbox]

Good stuff, there shouldn't be any more than 1-2 inches of movement. When I do it and shake the seat from the base the whole car moves.
I've been meaning to do a very comprehensive write up for a while now. I'll try to get it done tomorrow.

But just for future reference, The one clip I haven't mentioned is what I call an alligator clip, or red locking clip which comes with all Infa Secure seats. There are a couple of variants of it and the one that is sold is called an Excactus clip (I think it's shit) but it's basically a clamp that is attached to the sash part of the belt on the buckle side to prevent the buckle from moving.



It's a slightly different method to use it.
Feed the seatbelt through the correct path and clip it in.
Put your weight into the seat
Pull on the sash (top) belt as hard as you can
Clamp the top belt ONLY
Secure to the anchor point

In my opinion, these clips do have a use. I use them to seal up the peas before putting them in the freezer.
Being made of plastic, they do have a tendency to warp which over time the belt may slip BUT The only time I would use the clamp for a customer is if the seat will be removed often (grand parents or carers) and I show how to use it. Because of it's simplicity it is almost idiot proof.

[suzukikid]

I have no rear seats in mine and my little bloke who is 4 rides shot gun a fair wack of the time.

I have always used the thread from where the rear seats would mount. Surely its a legal way sence the nuts ect would of been engeneered? Nevery really thought about the legalities of it always thought it would be fine....

[buzbox]

Sure it "should" be fine and most probably is better than the original anchor point but if a cop decides that it's not, in NSW it's 3 points and close to $350 fine.

[alien]

That's a pretty cheap fine considering a child's life is at risk.

[buzbox]

It's less for drug driving.