[DesmondTheDrover]

Currently looking at a rear floater setup, as I'm going through a lot of rear wheel bearings at the moment. I don't know how I'm going to tackle this, as I want matching hubs front and rear (so sierra hubs), so that rules out ADD's hub set. Was looking at HM4x4s set .
https://www.hm4x4.com/en/suzuki-sj413-axle-kit-rear

I understand that the axles are absolute dog shit. I would have custom ones made up.
But the adapter looks like it would be easy enough to get someone in aus to machine one up. They do offset the wheels 25mm on each side (50mm total) which is a bit shit, but I was planning on counteracting that by using a NT housing which is 90mm narrower. So it would mean the rear would be 40mm narrower than a WT. Is this silly? I feel like I've read somewhere that a WT front axle and NT rear axle is the perfect setup, as you get enough spring clearance in the front to run big tyres, and chromos. And the rear axle being shorter means you get the NT advantage of biting onto the inside of the ruts made by big patrols .

PLUS you can use locking hubs on the rear. So you can unlock them and do front digs. A poor mans rear disconnect.

I don't really see any downsides. Apart from the extra effort. Poke at my idea please.

[Brenno]

I am a bit confused what you mean by matching hubs? Do you mean the locking hub?

Rears floaters use a drive flange, no locking hub needed.

Don't over complicate it. Keep your WT's, get the ADD kit (I have one, it is great). I have Vitara spindle/bearings which have a better locking ring and I've never redone them in 5 years. Just minor maintenance. No need to change housings, get custom machined axles made etc.

[DesmondTheDrover]

The ADD kit uses a Grand Vitara wheel hub assembly, correct?

It's used because it's much narrower than a Sierra hub assembly, which keeps the additional track width to a minimum. However, I like the idea of running matching hub assemblies front and rear. It means fewer spare parts to carry and the same wheel bearings throughout.

I already have an NT housing sitting out the back.

I understand the rears normally use a drive flange, but you could also run locking hubs. I saw a guy at NBS do this, and it was actually quite useful for pulling the front around obstacles while keeping the rear stationary.

[DesmondTheDrover]

I mean the wheel hub assembly.

[Brenno]

Mine uses Vitara wheel hubs, I am sure GV would be similar.

I still think you are over complicating things, the weight of an extra set of bearings vastly outweighs the time and effort and cost of getting new axles machines, changing housings etc. You might even mind that the bearings are the same?

Go for it by all means and keep us updated.

[Gwagensteve]

The added track width when using sierra front spindles and hubs is insignificant. I checked this many, many years ago when I started doing floaters and the added width just wasn’t a significant enough reason to mess around with NT axles (which have a different backing plate bolt orientation so a floater adapter fit for a WT wouldn’t work quite the same. Don’t worry about it.

Free wheeling hubs will work in the rear but there’s just more moving parts to mess with. I can’t commment on your local conditions but I have a rear drive disconnect and it’s pretty useless in Victoria.

Having one wheelbearing set for the whole car is appealing in theory but it’s not that big of a deal in practice. With proper maintenance and checks you shouldn’t ever need an unscheduled / emergency bearing swap. When I was running sierra front spindles all round I carried a complete spare hub and spindle assembly with me, originally as my spare tyre carrier and then just in my toolbox. Never used it so indecided the weight wasn’t worth it.

[Beery]

Jake galczynski (you can probably get a hold of him on insta) was telling me he machined out Vitara hubs (what the ADD kit uses) to accept a sierra wheel bearing. He does lots of long distance touring style stuff I believe, so wanted a set of bearings that could fit any corner of the car. You could go that route to save yourself the drama of making your own kit. ADD's current batch of axles are strong. I think there was talk he might not be doing another run though, you would have to check. Personally, the Vitara bearings are pretty beefy in comparison to a stock WT rear - like any wheel bearing, if it's maintained it's not something you'll have to address often. I wouldn't stress about it.

DesmondTheDrover wrote:

PLUS you can use locking hubs on the rear. So you can unlock them and do front digs. A poor mans rear disconnect.

This sounds cool and all, and maybe some people bother, but there's no chance I'm going to stop on an obstacle, get out/get someone to unlock the hubs to try a front dig that may or may not work, and then lock them back in again. Too much mucking around imo. Also, while free wheeling hubs are very reliable, they have to put up with a lot more abuse on the rear. personally, I'd prefer to just have a drive flange there for durability/simplicity reasons.

The narrow track rear thing can certainly be very good in ruts. If you drive a lot of that stuff then maybe it's worth it. Narrow rear would be a bit gross when trying to straddle stuff/avoid holes though, plus general stability imo. I've run my sierra at varying width's over the years. currently it's on 15x7 -13's, with a 32x10 roxxzilla, and it's by far my favourite. It feels much better than when I was running very narrow 32's on a +5 jimny rim. (5.5" wide) that setup felt pretty "tippy". It's still good in ruts, however, that's mostly due to the tyres. The sidewall is very aggressive, and is much wider than the actual face of the tread, so they bite in on ruts, but still keep ground pressure.

You wheel mostly in QLD yea? I wouldn't bother with the whole NT rear thing. It's not like Vic where deep ruts are a common thing.

Shaving the diffs is an excellent mod. it's free clearance with basically no other draw backs!

Anyway, there's some of my thoughts.

[Beery]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can’t commment on your local conditions but I have a rear drive disconnect and it’s pretty useless in Victoria.

I've seen it work quite well up in QLD. Typically very high traction, and if you have some decent tyres you can get the car to do some cool stuff, especially with cutting brakes. I would like to try one in my car one day.

[DesmondTheDrover]

Yes I've talked to Jake about this actually! He told me about how he machined out the vitara hubs. I thought it was awesome, but he also said it was a massive PITA. He also said no matter what he tries, He can't get the inner axle seal to seal properly. His wheelbearings are oil lubricated because of this. He's managed to seal the wheel hub seals well enough so that there are no oil leaks which is good.

Yeah I've seen your Suzuki... I follow your build. The 32x10 roxxzillas look awesome, unfortunately not ideal for me . My suzuki is my daily driver, and I dont really want to modify it to run that large of a tyre. The cops on the sunshine coast are brutal.

When I first bought my zook it was on NT axles. After moving to WT axles, I did notice that I would have more troubles on rutty tracks than I did when it was NT. But it did feel much more stable once moving to WT, which was quite nice.
Im already on NT spacing, and have a spare rear housing sitting out the back of my dads place, so moving to NT rear is really not a big deal. Once a sierra spindle/hub is added on, it will probably only be 40mm short of a wide track, so it wont really be a nt anyway. Just between NT and WT. I think I would prefer this to 50mm wider than a WT, which is what a WT rear housing and sierra spindle/hub would be. My plan is to only run a skinny 30 inch tyre, so I'd prefer to be more on the narrow side.

I wheel mainly up in QLD, lots of Glasshouse and Kenilworth, but recently found myself doing much longer trips to Carnovaron Gorge, and the Blue Mountains. I'm now planning trips to Cape York and after that the Kimberly.

Since doing all this driving, I really started to notice that the less weight I had, the less fuel I would use. I couldn't actually believe it. When I had a 12v setup with fridge, awning roof racks, swag, I'd find myself using 14l per 100kms, sometimes more. But after reading forums about fuel consumption, I decided to take everything out. It made a massive difference! I now use between 9-10l per 100kms consistently.

So now I have an obsession with cutting weight. I sleep on a hiking mat, eat non perishable canned foods (so no fridge). I've cut down my tools in half, sold my roof racks, awning, 12v system, fridge, swag. I'm pretty much pack like a backpacker now.

As I mentioned before, I go through alot of rear wheelbearings (I drive through a lot of mud). On longer trips, I would bring a cordless grinder and an appropriately sized pipe to bang on the new bearings. I only ever had to change one on the side of the road, but it was a major pain in the ass. Full floater is the way. And I thought if I were to do the conversion, I'd prefer to have a serviceable hub (Grand Vitara does not) and matching wheelbearings front and back.

I have CAD experience and a 3d scanner I can borrow, so I believe I have the knowledge and the tools to do it. I'm currently in england so not much progress will be made in the next few months.

I know this will probably be a major pain in the ass, and probably isn't worth the effort, but I enjoy this sort of stuff.

[Brenno]

Seems like you are keen to go through with your plan so go for it! Fyi, I don't notice any track width difference between my front and rear. Make sure you document it when you get back.

[Beery]

Yea, my axle seals leak like a sieve too. My housing was straight when I fitted the kit. (might not be now)

I think there's a few things going on. I only roughly checked my housing with a pretty dodgy alignment bar, so it might not be perfect. I think also the housings flex when in use and break the seal momentarily causing a leak. I'm also not really thrilled with the location of the seal. They're located in the pocket where the original wheel bearing seats. I think it's a bit far from the end of the hub/bearing, so any flex or bend in the housing is exaggerated. A stock sierra seal is basically right next to the bearing, so they can have a bent housing/flex and not leak (to a degree) Same with factory full float stuff, like an 80 series landcruiser (or, basically any full float landcruiser) have the seal way out at the end of the axle, in the tip of the spindle.

We were discussing this last AT, and jonno had recently machined up a different puck for his full float kit to suit a trail-gear seal. These are more flexible, and often used in the front to help with cromo cv's/general inner axle seal leaks. It's only done the one trip, but so far no leaks. I'm about to have my rear housing out, so it's probably something I'll try too. If you're starting from scratch you may be able to come up up with a better design altogether.

Also, sierra third members are pretty sloppy when it comes to fitment. There's quite a lot of rotational play when fitting them back into the housing. You can really see it when you have an alignment bar fitted. I verified with an alignment bar where it needed to sit to have the axles run true, and put a chisel mark across the third member casing and the housing. I just line these up whenever the third member gets pulled/re-installed.

Anyway, let us know what you come up with!