[11_evl]

Hi
Has anyone had success with STD ecu, turbo running low boost??
Im about to swap from LPG to EFI and was thinking of running it with a turbo in the future.
I can putbigger injectors and or a rising rate fuel Reg but don't want to change ecu at this stage!!
It's to go on a rock crawler so will not see road use at all.
Runnin thru auto if that makes any difference.
Wanting to only run wastegate pressure only so max 6-8 psi.
I have alot of experience with turbos and aftermarket ecu but nome with STD vitara ecu

Will stock ecu handle low boost??

[Fatzook]

not that I am aware of.

Traul Boost losing. They have used aftermarket ECU's on there all the time.

[royce]

its not going to know there is any boost, I guess its a matter of seeing how much more air can go through the AFM before it chucks a tantrum

[stocker]

maybe with a rising rate Fuel Reg.?? to stop detonation. and yeahh AFM may chuck a hissy

[LAY80N]

Rising rate reg wont fix the timing issues. Too much advance, particually as the motor comes on boost, will end up with a big disaster.


Layto....

[MrRocky]

the only solution is a hobbs pressure switch and an extra injector setup
even then 6psi would be your safe max i think

[11_evl]

Umm interesting.

Sounds like I Might have to go after market and big boost

[Fatzook]

11_evl wrote:

Umm interesting.

Sounds like I Might have to go after market and big boost

Fixed

[ajsr]

or stay with lpg and turbo, it works a treat

[JrZook]

11_evl wrote:

Umm interesting.

Sounds like I Might have to go after market and big boost

If its a crawler and isnt gonna see too much k's anyways there was a pretty good thread on pirate about a cheap junkyard turbo setup some guy used on his Vit to race it during the summer or something. Have a troll you mite be able to find it. Think he pretty much just added a rising rate fuel reg and retarded the base timing at the dizzy.

As I see it this is for a rockcrawler application which wont see boost and full loads for long at all compared to a road car. Can get away with more stuff

[11_evl]

ajsr wrote:

or stay with lpg and turbo, it works a treat

Got more info?? Pics??

[canberramav]

The general opinion is the stock ecu is good for 6psi.

Ive done a fair bit of reseach just by trawling forums etc. Im turboing my G16b at the moment but have gone to a Haltech to run things

[buzbox]

The Haltech ECU would've cost you about $1200, a second hand turbo would cost at least $200+ Another $700 if you have to get it rebuilt, You'd need fittings, Manifold at least $400, exhaust to suit another few hundred, + dyno tuning....

Sure you can't put a price on the fun factor but In my opinion it costs way too much just for a few extra killerwasps, Better off just doing an engine conversion but I'd just stick an aftermarket camshaft or have the original re-ground. Better off keeping to the KISS method.

[Fatzook]

buzbox wrote:

Sure you can't put a price on the fun factor but In my opinion it costs way too much just for a few extra killerwasps, Better off just doing an engine conversion

Agreed.

J20 for sale here

[royce]

buzbox wrote:

The Haltech ECU would've cost you about $1200, a second hand turbo would cost at least $200+ Another $700 if you have to get it rebuilt, You'd need fittings, Manifold at least $400, exhaust to suit another few hundred, + dyno tuning....

Sure you can't put a price on the fun factor but In my opinion it costs way too much just for a few extra killerwasps, Better off just doing an engine conversion but I'd just stick an aftermarket camshaft or have the original re-ground. Better off keeping to the KISS method.

Not on an owner built buggy that the owner can do it all himself
Turbo will increase power a shit load more than a cam ever could and not a stupid revs either

[buzbox]

Taking the lowrange offroad tourquer 260 Hawk cam as an example, The power band would be pretty much the same as standard between 1000-4000rpm but claims to improve power and of course torque. For under $300 I think it's a better option. Less moving parts for things to go wrong with.

For a comp buggy that's trailered to events, and you have the resources to do it yeah sure why not turbo it, but I still think an engine conversion would be a better option, Especially if it's your average person using the car everyday and going to remote or hard to get to areas, No point in taking an engine to the limits when a standard engine would produce just as much if not more power and torque.

For example, a turbo'd G16b would produce, well depends on a few things but say 100kw while an N/A J20 would do the same. I've noticed a few sierra's that have done a Toyota 20V engine conversion, from memory they produce 120kw N/A and are a lighter engine than the suzuki V6, but again power and torque come on higher in the rev range.

I wonder if an Izuzu 2.6 4cyl engine out of a Rodeo would fit in the vitara's engine bay, It seems small enough and produces alot of torque at low revs.

[JrZook]

buzbox wrote:

I wonder if an Izuzu 2.6 4cyl engine out of a Rodeo would fit in the vitara's engine bay, It seems small enough and produces alot of torque at low revs.

Cast iron block??

[JrZook]

JrZook wrote:

11_evl wrote:

Umm interesting.

Sounds like I Might have to go after market and big boost

If its a crawler and isnt gonna see too much k's anyways there was a pretty good thread on pirate about a cheap junkyard turbo setup some guy used on his Vit to race it during the summer or something. Have a troll you mite be able to find it. Think he pretty much just added a rising rate fuel reg and retarded the base timing at the dizzy.

As I see it this is for a rockcrawler application which wont see boost and full loads for long at all compared to a road car. Can get away with more stuff

And heres the link Mr 11_evl http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701496

Its a good read, enjoy!

[buzbox]

JrZook wrote:

buzbox wrote:

I wonder if an Izuzu 2.6 4cyl engine out of a Rodeo would fit in the vitara's engine bay, It seems small enough and produces alot of torque at low revs.

Cast iron block??

Yep, They're a fairly strong motor and I know they can be modified to produce some big numbers.

[JrZook]

buzbox wrote:

JrZook wrote:

buzbox wrote:

I wonder if an Izuzu 2.6 4cyl engine out of a Rodeo would fit in the vitara's engine bay, It seems small enough and produces alot of torque at low revs.

Cast iron block??

Yep, They're a fairly strong motor and I know they can be modified to produce some big numbers.

Most likely yea but whats the weight difference between them and an all alloy 16v?

[buzbox]

Yeah the 2.6 is a heavy bitch, weighing in at about 150kg

[Fatzook]

JrZook wrote:

buzbox wrote:

JrZook wrote:

buzbox wrote:

I wonder if an Izuzu 2.6 4cyl engine out of a Rodeo would fit in the vitara's engine bay, It seems small enough and produces alot of torque at low revs.

Cast iron block??

Yep, They're a fairly strong motor and I know they can be modified to produce some big numbers.

Most likely yea but whats the weight difference between them and an all alloy 16v?

HUGE would be my guess.

[11_evl]

Getting a little off track

I don't live in the bush so parts are still easy to get.
I have a turbo
I have the exhaust manifold
It is for a trailered car running 40" tyres so will NEVA see road
It will not get thrashed up the beach with high loads for a long time , altho it will get stuck on large rocks or stepups loading the auto and probably overheating
I have the motor, gearbox combo I want. Not changing now, may in the future
I do understand your reasoning buz about aftermarket ecu but don't want to go that path just yet. I have and can all the conversion to turbo bar a PROPER tune which is money to throw into someone elses pocket
JRZOOK I'll defiantly check out your link when I have a spare minute.

[JrZook]

11_evl wrote:

Getting a little off track

I don't live in the bush so parts are still easy to get.
I have a turbo
I have the exhaust manifold
It is for a trailered car running 40" tyres so will NEVA see road
It will not get thrashed up the beach with high loads for a long time , altho it will get stuck on large rocks or stepups loading the auto and probably overheating
I have the motor, gearbox combo I want. Not changing now, may in the future
I do understand your reasoning buz about aftermarket ecu but don't want to go that path just yet. I have and can all the conversion to turbo bar a PROPER tune which is money to throw into someone elses pocket
JRZOOK I'll defiantly check out your link when I have a spare minute.

Yes very correct, different application here ppl. This is what I summed up near the start of the thread.
Deffo have a good read of that thread, its from someone that actually did it and it worked well.

Dan

[royce]

I think the problem is the proper tune part, as far as anyone can tell me the ecu cant be reprogrammed in any way that makes sense so you cant change any values to suit it

can your current mixer/converter setup be referenced to boost pressure? if you have the turbo already it would have to be worth looking at making the LPG work first

[Fatzook]

Well it seems that you don't want to spend much money. Thats cool.

But can I ask one question? If you chuck the turbo on, and your motor goes pop, can you afford to rebuild/ find another?

It may be better to just make to with what you have now, rather than push your stock motor to its limits.

[royce]

Fatzook wrote:

Well it seems that you don't want to spend much money. Thats cool.

But can I ask one question? If you chuck the turbo on, and your motor goes pop, can you afford to rebuild/ find another?

It may be better to just make to with what you have now, rather than push your stock motor to its limits.

You do understand you arent talking to a typical 13yo wanker dont you?

If you ever chekced out any comps or wheeled or even went outside youd be a little surprised at what some of these guys cobble together and make work for them

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

Well it seems that you don't want to spend much money. Thats cool.

But can I ask one question? If you chuck the turbo on, and your motor goes pop, can you afford to rebuild/ find another?

It may be better to just make to with what you have now, rather than push your stock motor to its limits.

You do understand you arent talking to a typical 13yo wanker dont you?

If you ever chekced out any comps or wheeled or even went outside youd be a little surprised at what some of these guys cobble together and make work for them

Yea have a sus at my link above!!

[Fatzook]

royce wrote:

You do understand you arent talking to a typical 13yo wanker dont you?

If you ever chekced out any comps or wheeled or even went outside youd be a little surprised at what some of these guys cobble together and make work for them

Yeah Royce I've met michael a few times. And I have a fair idea of what he is capable of

But just the same as the other guys he is up against, being competitive is at the top of the list.

And a universal requirement for all form s of motorsport where being competitive is a goal, is reliabilty.

I'm going back inside now. Its scary out here

[LAY80N]

11_evl wrote:

Getting a little off track

I don't live in the bush so parts are still easy to get.
I have a turbo
I have the exhaust manifold
It is for a trailered car running 40" tyres so will NEVA see road
It will not get thrashed up the beach with high loads for a long time , altho it will get stuck on large rocks or stepups loading the auto and probably overheating
I have the motor, gearbox combo I want. Not changing now, may in the future
I do understand your reasoning buz about aftermarket ecu but don't want to go that path just yet. I have and can all the conversion to turbo bar a PROPER tune which is money to throw into someone elses pocket
JRZOOK I'll defiantly check out your link when I have a spare minute.

An aftermarket computer 2nd hand is pretty cheap. How confindent are you at tuning yourself. Good ECU's these days have wideband O2 input which allows them to sort of "self tune". With a bit of knowledge you could get a decent base tune yourself, then just have a few dyno runs to tweak it. I have tuned pretty much all my own cars, plus a few others. If you are confident and not a retard then its possible to get a decent safe tune, then just need a quick tweak on a dyno instead of a full 5 hour tuning session.
The factory ECU will work to a point as demonstrated in the pirate thread. But for reliability it isnt the best. Dont get me wrong i am all for your idea, i say fuckin go for it and post as many pics and vid as you can. Just offering a bit of advice. I have made a few home brew turbo setups that have worked fairly well considering what i had to start with. The LPG turbo idea isnt a bad one either, LPG works pretty well combined with forced induction. Just need to confirm that your current mixer and setup will handle the extra fuel required and the positive manifold pressure situations.


Layto....