[bob9909]

hey there again, I was down the mechanics today getting some ideas and quotes for some of the major mods I want to get done

I have a sierra 95 and it is pretty stock, I would like to set it up for some good off-road use but she still needs to be useable on road

the 4x4 guy suggested 31inch wheels with a 2 inch raise and new susspension
also look to get a winch bar for 9500lbs super crap winch I picked up

my only worry is there just won't be enouth power to pull it all

what do you all think? a new engine or engine mods aren't out of the question but they would have to wait

[Joshyboy26]

Itll be fine, maybe spend money on transfer case gears if your really worried, but i personally wouldnt worry unless you want to do some serious 4wding.

[BlueSuzy]

Drive it, then see what you need?

[Damo]

bob9909 wrote:

hey there again, I was down the mechanics today getting some ideas and quotes for some of the major mods I want to get done

I have a sierra 95 and it is pretty stock, I would like to set it up for some good off-road use but she still needs to be useable on road

the 4x4 guy suggested 31inch wheels with a 2 inch raise and new susspension
also look to get a winch bar for 9500lbs super crap winch I picked up

my only worry is there just won't be enouth power to pull it all

what do you all think? a new engine or engine mods aren't out of the question but they would have to wait

a) 2" suspension + 31s = tyre rub deluxe
b) 31" tyres + no gears = fucked clutch

Sounds like "the 4x4 guy" has NFI.

[bob9909]

Hey thanks for some quick replies, Damo, could I ask what you would suggest?

[2stroker]

Sounds like he is saying 2" body lift and 2" spring lift, he is suggesting you need the 2" body lift to clear the 31" tyres he is recomending. As Damo says they are too big for standard gearing and will be more likely to make your car less capable off road because your gearing will not be low enough.

Seriously mate if I were you I would sell the winch, buy a set of 2" raised springs and long travel shockies, fit a set of 15 x 7 rims with -13 offset and a set of 235/75/15 mud tyres, remove the front sway bar and start looking for a 1 litre transfer case. That combination will will make your vehicle a lot more capable and will do you for quite some time before you will need to spend any more money. After you have been using it for a while like that you will start to develop a wish list and be able to make a more informed decisions on what other modifications will suit your kind of 4x4ing.

[youda]

I've given mine a fair old floggin and approached asking the same questions you have.

to get what i think is a very solid off roader and things i would do differently is this.
first sort out all the basics leads, plugs, dis cap, fresh coolant, oil change, any leaks, the usual crap.

get some aggressive 235/75/15 all terrains
A 2 inch suspension lift
advance the timing to 14deg btdc run premium unleaded (98 if you can afford it but 95 is all good).
forget fourth gear till you get some reduction gears.
this setup will get you a solid offroader that will still do 110 on the highway and keep pretty good fuel economy.
a winch isant a bad idea either.

[whincup]

youda wrote:

I've given mine a fair old floggin and approached asking the same questions you have.

to get what i think is a very solid off roader and things i would do differently is this.
first sort out all the basics leads, plugs, dis cap, fresh coolant, oil change, any leaks, the usual crap.

get some aggressive 235/75/15 all terrains
A 2 inch suspension lift
advance the timing to 14deg btdc run premium unleaded (98 if you can afford it but 95 is all good).
forget fifth gear till you get some reduction gears.
this setup will get you a solid offroader that will still do 110 on the highway and keep pretty good fuel economy.
a winch isant a bad idea either.

fixed you wont be able to use 5th gear on the highway if you want to be able to sit on 100km/h... you'll spend most of your time in 4th.

[youda]

lol, cheers

[atari4x4]

2stroker wrote:

Sounds like he is saying 2" body lift and 2" spring lift, he is suggesting you need the 2" body lift to clear the 31" tyres he is recomending. As Damo says they are too big for standard gearing and will be more likely to make your car less capable off road because your gearing will not be low enough.

Seriously mate if I were you I would sell the winch, buy a set of 2" raised springs and long travel shockies, fit a set of 15 x 7 rims with -13 offset and a set of 235/75/15 mud tyres, remove the front sway bar and start looking for a 1 litre transfer case. That combination will will make your vehicle a lot more capable and will do you for quite some time before you will need to spend any more money. After you have been using it for a while like that you will start to develop a wish list and be able to make a more informed decisions on what other modifications will suit your kind of 4x4ing.

do that ^^^ it's a proven combo

[bob9909]

Thanks guys, this is some great info, really what I am after
I'll definitely look into getting this done!

Could someone help explain to me how the 1 liter transfer case or reduction gears help out? Not too sure I fully understand

Thanks

[Gwagensteve]

Both a 1.0 litre case or reduction gears lower your gearing in both high and low range.

The effect is that on the road, they compensate for increasing the tyre diameter.

A 31" tyre is about 20% taller than standard, so for any speed, your engine will be spinning 20% slower. The result is that you pretty much never use 5th gear, and you have to slip the clutch a lot more to get going.

Whilst it is possible to drive a car with stock gearing and 31's, it's pretty hard on the car and frustrating. Off road it is possible if you don't do very steep terrain and don't have a locker. Once you add the traction of a locker the engine will bog down and the car will become almost undrivable.

1.0 transfer cases are about 12% lower in high range than what you have now.

Reduction gear sets start at 12% and go to about 20% depending on how much you want to reduce low range.

I wouldn't bother with a 1.0 case. You have to find the right one (a 4X4 switch light case) and it will most likely be fairly worn out now.

Steve.

[SierraDan]

Damo wrote:

a) 2" suspension + 30mm bumpstop spacing + 31s = low and awesome.

Fixed that one for ya.

[2stroker]

SierraDan wrote:

Damo wrote:

a) 2" suspension + 30mm bumpstop spacing + 31s = low and awesome.

Fixed that one for ya.

I always cringe when people say this, so you push the diff away from the chassis by 2" (50mm) and then add 30mm to the bump stop so that it cant come back up all the way.

Please stop and think about this for a minute. If you add longer bump stops it means that you limit the upward travel of your suspension while adding nothing to the downward travel. You therefore effectively reduce your cars offroad ability as you have decreased articulation.

I know people talk about "leverage affect" that the diff is against the extended bump stop and "levers" the opposite wheel down further. That theory is not valid. The fulcrum (in this case the bumpstop) is at the wrong end of the diff for this to work. A suzuki is a light vehicle, it is short for its width and shares weight well over all four corners, there is negligable "leverage effect" off extended bumpstop.

If you have decent suspension that will actually cycle through from full entension of the springs to bump stop then try this simple test, drive one front wheel onto the fork of a forklift, lift it till the opposite front wheel just come off the ground, take a measure of how high the fork is off the ground, let it down and sit a 30mm to 50mm block of timber between the bumpstop and diff to simulate an extended bumpstop, lift it again and you will see how much articulation you have lost.

[tanshi]

too much bump stop is a bad thing.

however. if you bump stop to fit a tyre and the tyre still reaches the inside of the inner guard even after bump stop. then you havent lost any up travel.

granted the bumpstops dont gain you much if any travel but the do allow you to fit bigger tyres without a negative effect.

[SierraDan]

I prefer limited up travel anyway. If I had anymore up travel I would be on my lid every trip as my car would be able to tip even more.

Never have I wanted more up travel only down travel. My zook is pretty capable and where I do come unstuck it's not because I've lost 30mm of up travel.

[SierraDan]

But. Still it's all horses for courses.

Some say 235's are more than enough, others say 40's aren't enough.
Everything suits everyone differently.

[Gwagensteve]

2stroker wrote:

SierraDan wrote:

Damo wrote:

a) 2" suspension + 30mm bumpstop spacing + 31s = low and awesome.

Fixed that one for ya.

I always cringe when people say this, ....lots of stuff about extended bumpstops.....

This is true if the shocks are left stock, and the spring clamps are still in place limiting how far the pack can open up.

Like everything, a modification to one thing influences others. I can speak from experience that if the shocks are long enough and the pack is unclamped, there is extra droop available from extended bumpstops.

In any case, if the car is equipped with lockers, adding travel doesn't really add capability, it only improves balance so the driver feels better about what the car is doing.

Here is an example:



This is more scoop than is possible from these springs without being forced via the bumpstop spacing.

Steve.

[abclarke]

whincup wrote:

youda wrote:

I've given mine a fair old floggin and approached asking the same questions you have.

to get what i think is a very solid off roader and things i would do differently is this.
first sort out all the basics leads, plugs, dis cap, fresh coolant, oil change, any leaks, the usual crap.

get some aggressive 235/75/15 all terrains
A 2 inch suspension lift
advance the timing to 14deg btdc run premium unleaded (98 if you can afford it but 95 is all good).
forget fifth gear till you get some reduction gears.
this setup will get you a solid offroader that will still do 110 on the highway and keep pretty good fuel economy.
a winch isant a bad idea either.

fixed you wont be able to use 5th gear on the highway if you want to be able to sit on 100km/h... you'll spend most of your time in 4th.

With my 31s and standard gearing i sit on 100kms just fine?

[SierraDan]

Quote:

In any case, if the car is equipped with lockers, adding travel doesn't really add capability, it only improves balance so the driver feels better about what the car is doing.

x2 with that. Lack of flex hasn't hindered me, just scared me shitless.

[31zook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

This is true if the shocks are left stock, and the spring clamps are still in place limiting how far the pack can open up.

Like everything, a modification to one thing influences others. I can speak from experience that if the shocks are long enough and the pack is unclamped, there is extra droop available from extended bumpstops.

In any case, if the car is equipped with lockers, adding travel doesn't really add capability, it only improves balance so the driver feels better about what the car is doing.

This is more scoop than is possible from these springs without being forced via the bumpstop spacing.

Steve.

X2, i have minimal up travel, and it feel bumpy but really stable. I think if dan had more down travel his car would be one of the most leafy capable sierra's i've ever seen.



Flex is over rated

[2stroker]

Gwagensteve wrote:

2stroker wrote:

SierraDan wrote:

Damo wrote:

a) 2" suspension + 30mm bumpstop spacing + 31s = low and awesome.

Fixed that one for ya.

I always cringe when people say this, ....lots of stuff about extended bumpstops.....

This is true if the shocks are left stock, and the spring clamps are still in place limiting how far the pack can open up.

Like everything, a modification to one thing influences others. I can speak from experience that if the shocks are long enough and the pack is unclamped, there is extra droop available from extended bumpstops.

Actually if the shocks are long enough and the pack is unclamped, there is extra droop available from having longer shocks and an unclamped pack nothong to do with the extended bump stops.

I guess what I am trying to say is that extending the bumpstops is a way to stop big tyres from hitting guards, it does nothing to aid the vehicles offroad ability and may in fact detract from it.

[2stroker]

SierraDan wrote:

I prefer limited up travel anyway. If I had anymore up travel I would be on my lid every trip as my car would be able to tip even more.

Never have I wanted more up travel only down travel. My zook is pretty capable and where I do come unstuck it's not because I've lost 30mm of up travel.

That is a ridiculous comment, more uptravel will mean less lean, obviously you have no idea what we are talking about, more uptravel would mean the wheel would go further up before the car starts to lean.

[steve]

oo another flexspringtravelbumpstop theory argument




Bob, i'd recommend just starting off with 2inch lifted springs (suspension kit) and some 235 All Terrain tyres... probably go anywhere you want it to go

[SierraDan]

2stroker wrote:

SierraDan wrote:

I prefer limited up travel anyway. If I had anymore up travel I would be on my lid every trip as my car would be able to tip even more.

Never have I wanted more up travel only down travel. My zook is pretty capable and where I do come unstuck it's not because I've lost 30mm of up travel.

That is a ridiculous comment, more uptravel will mean less lean, obviously you have no idea what we are talking about, more uptravel would mean the wheel would go further up before the car starts to lean.

Okay mate. Well in my EXPERIENCE, extended bumpstops work great to a limit.

[youda]

fixed you wont be able to use 5th gear on the highway if you want to be able to sit on 100km/h... you'll spend most of your time in 4th.[/quote]

With my 31s and standard gearing i sit on 100kms just fine? [/quote]

Yeah but how long does it take to get there and would you consider overtaking someone doing 95?
playing with the fuel and the timing will get you up to 120 within the space of an overtaking area with 235/75/15.
not increadibly important and for some not needed. it's a little luxury i like to have.

[bob9909]

This has developed into quite the thread
Honestly you have all convinced me to go through with getting the 2" suspension lift but getting the 235/75's instead of huge 31's

@2stroker, when looking at rims online I cant find any mention of offset? Is this something you set when you install them? or do you have to buy them with a specific offset?

I don't know about this whole 110 - 120kmh on 235's thing you are talking about? I'm running 205/70/15 stock tyres and I sometimes I struggle to hit 100kmh, maybe 110 when down a decent hill. It doesn't feel particularly bad, but I cant help but feel there should be a little bit more power there.

I just rebuilt the carby and things were better than before (struggled to hit 90) but it has been playing up on me again :S
So we will have to see what I can do with it over Christmas, but even then I don't have the kind of power with the stock engine that other people are talking about.

I have been thinking about getting extractors and a new hi flow cat, reckon this might help? or maybe I should be checking engine compression and considering an engine rebuild?

I guess the big question is, is it worth it to spend the money on the stock engine or save up for a 1.6? honestly I would like to run with the stock engine as long as I can I just don't know if that is that smart a move :S

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions so far, I really appreciate it

[SierraDan]

The stock motor is good when running well and some slight mods. Obviously the 1.6 is better.

With the offset you buy rims with a chosen offset. A -13 offset 15x7 rim will suit the 235's if you wish to stray away from the stock rims which can be used if you wish.

A 1ltr transfer case will help the gearing out. Or if you want to try at some crawling the 4.16 gears will work. Giving a lower reduction in 4Lo

[MacDaddy]

steve wrote:

Bob, i'd recommend just starting off with 2inch lifted springs (suspension kit) and some 235 All Terrain tyres... probably go anywhere you want it to go

X 2

bob9909 wrote:

I don't know about this whole 110 - 120kmh on 235's thing you are talking about? I'm running 205/70/15 stock tyres and I sometimes I struggle to hit 100kmh, maybe 110 when down a decent hill. It doesn't feel particularly bad, but I cant help but feel there should be a little bit more power there.

I just rebuilt the carby and things were better than before (struggled to hit 90) but it has been playing up on me again :S
So we will have to see what I can do with it over Christmas, but even then I don't have the kind of power with the stock engine that other people are talking about.

I have been thinking about getting extractors and a new hi flow cat, reckon this might help? or maybe I should be checking engine compression and considering an engine rebuild?

I guess the big question is, is it worth it to spend the money on the stock engine or save up for a 1.6? honestly I would like to run with the stock engine as long as I can I just don't know if that is that smart a move :S

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions so far, I really appreciate it

If you are struggling to get to 100kph with 205/70/15 tyres, then there is something wrong...

If you just rebuilt the carby, did you tune the carby properly ?
It has to be tuned when cold, and at running temp, to do it right, and then the engine needs to be tuned, to get it all to run well...

Extracters and hi-flo Cat, with a sports system, is a good idea, i get it done to every Zook i have owned... but unless the carby and engine are running well, it wont make any difference, get them sorted, then look into exhaust...

The 1.3 is a bloody good engine, when running well, if not, it really lacks power and torque... i would get the Carby and Engine running well first, then get the suspension and tyres done, then the exhaust, and then take your Zook offroad, and get to know how it handles and performs, and see how it goes, you may be surprised by how well it does... the 1.6 is a good conversion, but unless you do some serious offroading, or are a lead foot, the 1.3 running well, will be plenty for your needs !

[shep]

i can cruse at 90kph when towing my boat so a 1.3 when geared correctly has adequate power.