[fordem]

I was in a discussion on another forum and it was mentioned that auto lockers are not legal in Australia - something which I have never seen mentioned here - seemed a luittle strange to me. What's the low down?

[alien]

its very hard to find info on it... i know an air locker is legal, as the vehicle acts "as normal" when its deactivated, and i know a welded diff is illegal because its a modification of a factory safety feature. One can only assume that seeing as an auto-locker can engage on the road and can't be de-activated that its no different to a welded diff (in fact i'd argue a welded diff is safter as its more predictable).

[sideways]

alien wrote:

(in fact i'd argue a welded diff is safter as its more predictable).

I drive my LJ with an auto locker every day and I can't tell it's there unless I'm doing less than about 10km/h because of the extra play in the diff and with the window down, you can hear it click. It's 100% predictable, if you put your foot down or compression brake quite hard then it locks, if you drive normally you genuinely couldn't tell it's there. Then again, I have what feels like about 20hp at the wheels so the effect would be somewhat lessened there.

You sure as heck notice a welded/mini spool a lot more at small speeds and a welded one is certainly a lot more dangerous than an auto locker in certain cars and situations, though the auto always has the potential to be just as dangerous. There's no denying the negative effects of a locker are always there with a welded/spool.

Isn't the rule something like you're allowed to fit an aftermarket locker if it can be deactivated from the drivers seat? That's one hell of a grey area.

[SierraDan]

alien wrote:

(in fact i'd argue a welded diff is safter as its more predictable).

[got_bar_work]

My work ute comes from the factory with a eaton auto locker in the rear
Cant work out wat type but u cant feel its there

[christover1]

I can disconnect my auto lockers from the drivers seat.
I just back off the loud pedal and it unlocks

[Built4thrashing]

Auto locker?????? The spartin and lockright diff locks are normally locked during normal driving and only unlock when traction to both wheels it high enough to force the locking plates to ratchet.

Your better to call them Un-Lockers

[jonno_racing]

I know some one who got defected for a in correctly functioning diff center. he had a death trap (auto locker)

[SierraDan]

I love auto lockers.
Predictable.
Reliable
Cheap

if they are otherwise. You didnt install in properly and paid too much

[shep]

SierraDan wrote:

I love auto lockers.
Predictable.
Reliable
Cheap

if they are otherwise. You didnt install in properly and paid too much

Agreed

In Australia because we don't (thankfully) have a bill of rights things are only illegal if it specifically has a law stating that is is not allowed. If there is no law saying no then it is legal.

[sideways]

SierraDan wrote:

I love auto lockers.
Predictable.
Reliable
Cheap

if they are otherwise. You didnt install in properly and paid too much

X2

[evski]

I always though the reason why auto-lockers are legal over welded or mini spool, is the fact they have the ability to un-lock and act as an open diff around corners. You cant un-activate an LSD from the drivers seat, and there factory fitments in most cases. so why would autolockers be illegal.

[atari4x4]

evski wrote:

I always though the reason why auto-lockers are legal over welded or mini spool, is the fact they have the ability to un-lock and act as an open diff around corners. You cant un-activate an LSD from the drivers seat, and there factory fitments in most cases. so why would autolockers be illegal.

i think that is the key thing, standard equipment VS aftermarket eg ADR's

[evski]

Do the actual lockers need to meet ADR's to be sold in Australia? You would think they would need to meet standards, but I guess if you put that old tag 'off-road only' in-front of a product, this could take away the need to do so.

[Gwagensteve]

Many, many aftermarket items sold in Australia aren't ADR approved. HID Headlight conversions, any spring that lifts the vehicle more than 1/3 of the original cars wheel travel (ever wondered why OME springs are rated for 40mm of lift) Super Swampers tyres, winch fairleads where they aren't recessed.

That's not to add that most aftermarket parts, even if they are ADR approved, can be used in ways which would then result in the vehicle being illegal - 8" rims on a sierra, for an example, or fitting more than 6 forward facing lights, or using coil spacers to increase lift beyond the 1/3 rule.

Whilst there are (and have been) many OEM fitted locking-type differentials that have been/are road legal, that doesn't mean a lock right/spartan is.

They key difference is that the OEM fitted locking diffs are open until they begin to slip, then they bite up. This is the case for ramp loading LSD's (patrol) the zexel/torsen worm gear diffs used in a number of vehicles, most notably the H1 Hummer, and the "Gov-Lock" diff used the in the rear of many GM pickups. In fact, I believe that BMW M cars use a rear diff that can lock under heavy acceleration, but it is open in normal use, not the other way around.

I do not believe that there has been a car with a factory fitted "detroit locker" approved for road use in Australia. I might be wrong, but if there was, I'd guess is was in the late 60's.

Because they interfere with the normal operation of the vehicle as it was ADR approved, I'd vote they are illegal. In fact, I can see no legal difference between a lock right and a mini spool. A lock right certainly has as much effect on handling as a spool... but nobody would argue a spool is legal.

Steve.

[shep]

Yes but that doesn't make them illegal. Just because they don't meet ADRs or whatever standerd doesn't mean you are a criminal for having them.

[evski]

Well I just bought two of them, but considering my zook is on 8in rims, has Jeep suspension, and aftermarket seats, the spatans are the least of my worries haha

[alien]

evski wrote:

Well I just bought two of them, but considering my zook is on 8in rims, has Jeep suspension, and aftermarket seats, the spatans are the least of my worries haha

the thing is, if the spartan engages as you go around a corner and you slide around it a bit (even in the wet) and a cop sees, its a great excuse to pull you over... look what happened to MrRocky ages ago - he did a skid on a roundabout in the wet, which caught the police's attention, and they did him under WA's hoon laws.

[evski]

Then you can drop a 'I just installed an LSD into the rear, and im still getting used to it... sorry sir haha. I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but auto-lockers have been around for years, Ive had them in several vehicles, I've never heard of them being illegal, and agree that if there set-up right they are a great alternative to selectable lockers. If your running the right tyre pressure, and drive accordingly, the vehicle shouldnt behave in that way.

[atari4x4]

shep wrote:

Yes but that doesn't make them illegal. Just because they don't meet ADRs or whatever standerd doesn't mean you are a criminal for having them.

if they're not illegal then whey can you get defected for them

[sideways]

alien wrote:

evski wrote:

Well I just bought two of them, but considering my zook is on 8in rims, has Jeep suspension, and aftermarket seats, the spatans are the least of my worries haha

the thing is, if the spartan engages as you go around a corner and you slide around it a bit (even in the wet) and a cop sees, its a great excuse to pull you over... look what happened to MrRocky ages ago - he did a skid on a roundabout in the wet, which caught the police's attention, and they did him under WA's hoon laws.

So you're saying if you have a locked diff and you go around a corner then the tail will come out? Another win for spools!

They're very predictable Alien, if you plant your foot it's gona lock and in the right conditions the tail will come out(in my case, it doesn't make any difference unless you're doing rolling clutch dumps in second on gravel, it has no effect at decent speed). With a spool(or even a tight LSD) the same thing happens, except it's always locked.

Have you actually driven an auto locked or a spooled car on the road Alien?

[jonno_racing]

atari4x4 wrote:

shep wrote:

Yes but that doesn't make them illegal. Just because they don't meet ADRs or whatever standerd doesn't mean you are a criminal for having them.

if they're not illegal then whey can you get defected for them

Find me the law that governs how fast you can take off at the lights...
yet they still take cars for hooning under it... they will find a way!

[alien]

sideways wrote:

Have you actually driven an auto locked or a spooled car on the road Alien?

i had a welded rear diff for a few years before going to an airlocker, and i drove a sierra with an auto locker in the back for a week and i hated it... i got used to it a little, but i still wasnt used to not being able to gas it out of a corner, even with the welded rear you could feed it power coming out of a corner and not slide, but i found with the auto locker it was hit and miss whether it would kick in or not - i do understand it likely wasnt set up right, but its still my personal experience that theyre less predictable than fully open or fully locked (welded or spooled).

[Gwagensteve]

I have sideways, and I hate auto lockers because of the constant corrections they require on long sweeping bends. I hate them off road too, because they are more intrusive than a spool in the rear and useless in the front for the terrain we drive.

I do not believe they are all that predictable, because you don't know exactly when they're going to lock or unlock,- you don't know when you are going to have to correct for the locking/unlocking, so it's pitch and catch on the road.

None of this has any effect on the debate though, which is are auto lockers illegal?

If someone can prove to me an auto locker is legal, then it must mean my mini spool is legal.

Shep - don't confuse the highway code with the criminal code. Because our car isn't legal doesn't automatically make us guilty of a criminal offence.

As an aside, some searching turned up this:

Quote:

Check legalities in your state on auto lockers if staying legal is an issue....For example in QLD NCOP4 from VBS14 states that..."The differential must not be locked either by the use of spools or welding to prevent any difference in speed between the wheels on any axle. A proprietary part-time differential locking device may be utilised, provided that the driver can control it from the normal seating position."

You can't control a lock right from the normal seating position, so I'd say that's illegal.

NCOP is national code of practice, no? so that sounds like it's the case nationwide?

Steve.

[Red89]

SierraDan wrote:

I love auto lockers.
Predictable.
Reliable
Cheap

if they are otherwise. You didnt install in properly and paid too much

x2 but I would never install a second hand one again, my Sierra ones worked flawlessly for several years but the guy who bought them off me had nothing but dramas with them. My Lux rear one was 2nd hand, but in perfect working order, and refused to lock when installed in my diff, even after being reshimmed it would give out when pushed hard. I wonder whether after a while they form a 'pattern' on the gears, like the R&P do, and dont like being reinstalled to different specs or in a different diff.

[alien]

i think you're right steve... VSB14 on transmissions is here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... n_2011.pdf

Page 6 of 20, point 2.3 is where steve got his quote from.

You'll also note on page 14 of 20 that there's a basic questionairre to ensure a legal build, and question 5.1 asks "Has the differential been left unlocked?"

[Gwagensteve]

Without using brand names, I'd say that's pretty clear - if you can't unlock the diff to return to "open" configuration from the driver's seat, it's a no.

It's important to recognise that an auto locker that happens to be unlocked is not the same as an open diff - it's a locked diff with one wheel overspeeding the crownwheel.

Steve.

[royce]

jonno_racing wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

shep wrote:

Yes but that doesn't make them illegal. Just because they don't meet ADRs or whatever standerd doesn't mean you are a criminal for having them.

if they're not illegal then whey can you get defected for them

Find me the law that governs how fast you can take off at the lights...
yet they still take cars for hooning under it... they will find a way!

Heaps of wording around taking off faster than the flow of traffic, reasonable control of the vehicle yadda yadda yadda.

Just cause it doesn't expressly jump out of a little brochure and smack you in the face, doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[DarkHorse]

Gwagensteve wrote:

NCOP is national code of practice, no? so that sounds like it's the case nationwide?

Steve.

Not even close.

As far as I'm aware Qld is the only state that has actually adopted the NCOP into it's regulations, and even then with some exceptions.
NSW is effectively acknowledging it's existence while completely ignoring it's implications.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25087
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36825
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36988

Not sure about Vic... seems to have adopted it with exceptions as well:
http://www.victoriapolice4wdclub.org.au ... hicles.pdf

[Gwagensteve]

Engineers have been working within the restrictions of the draft NCOP for many years in Victoria.

I think ignoring the NCOP because you don't like what is says about your chosen mod is a bit like shoving your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalala" - Sooner or later it's going to have to face it.

I've never thought lock rights were legal on road cars. I have subsequently become aware that Ford fitted detroit lockers to GTHO Phase 3 Falcons, and some are claiming that that then means they are "legal" as an aftermarket part, but there's not one other parameter of a phase 3 that's currently legal, so that's kind of a moot point. A model T ford only had brakes on the rear wheels, but that doesn't mean you can disconnect the front brakes on your car either.

Steve.