[Shift]

also76 wrote:

Being a bit of a noob to wheeling then i guess reduction will help me learn to slow down and be a bit more technical. i just worry about getting through mud ruts easily without lockers ans going slower.

Mud ruts will always give you trouble regardless of if you go lockers or gears. Bigger tyres are the only thing that will stop your diffs dragging.

[JrZook]

Brett wrote:

locker, doesnt matter what gearing you have with a wheel in the air and no drive

Ok to make this argument much more simple to understand.

Lets look on the extreme sides of the question just to try and highlight the issue some of us are trying to explain.

Say you had 37' tires on a sierra and you had the choice between again a locker or reduction gears. What would you choose?

Now without destroying your clutch I would say that there would be zero chance that you would find your self in a situation where a locker would assist. Gears on the other-hand would get the thing to move without epic clutch slip and increase the torque at the wheels to make it responsive as well as controllable again.

also76:

Since you have self admitted noob status, try and picture it this way. stock Sierra's came out with 27' tires and you have now put on 30's. If you have stock vehicle to directly compare to yours it would be in say 2nd gear everywhere you are in 1st as the large tires effectively gave you a higher gear.

Now we all know its a lot easier to get a car moving taking off in the lowest gear ie 1st under any condition. You have now effectively lost this ability with the bigger tires as now your first gear would be near equivalent to 2nd on a stock vehicle. Therefore it requires alot more clutch slip to start moving and move throttle input thus speed to keep it from stalling. This becomes very hard on the clutch and the rest of the car as you have no choice but to either slip the clutch or hit obstacles at speed.

Understand?

And just remember with the gears, you are not stuck in using 1st low everywhere. Depending on the conditions you could use 2nd or 3rd low also. If you need higher speed than that range I'd suggest you move back into high 1st/2nd etc.

Dan

[Brett]

Wake up poeple,, he is only on 30's not 37 inch tyres. gearing is good but a was of time unless he gets more flex and gets bigger wheels because the 1st time he crawls into a big rut and gets crossed up he will be wishing he had a locker

[matfan]

Well as someone who has 30's 4.9's and a locker I think I'm probably qualified to comment here.

I got the locker first and loved it, the gears are an awesome addition as well but this is how I look at it... the lockers get me through things that I could not have gotten through without them, the gears make it a bit easier.

If you do decide to go for the reduction, 4.9's on 30's are perfect

[JrZook]

Ughhhhhhhhh seriously are you guys fucken retarded or just can't read properly...........

The point of that was to explain to newbies what was actually going on. The most simplest way to do this to try and get them to understand what is going on is to look at the extreme sides of the issues.

also76: I hope you got a rough idea of what I was trying to explain. It served as a mere night and day example to try and help your understanding

JrZook wrote:

Ok to make this argument much more simple to understand.

Lets look on the extreme sides of the question just to try and highlight the issue some of us are trying to explain.

[303zuke]

also76 wrote:

she's still just a carby fed 1.3

Another point to look at is that in strict engineering terms, a gearbox is defined as a "Torque Multiplier". Any reduction in gearing will increase the amount of torque put to the wheels, in addition to slowing the speed and offering more control. A locker can provide more traction to the ground, but can never increase the amount of torque.

One of the reasons a puny 540cc LJ50 performs so well off road is the low gearing which multiplies the torque. Providing gearing that gives a reduction of 12-15% in high range will give an increase in torque of 12-15% on the road. Better than extractors or a cam. Or a locker. Reduction gearing makes a Sierra (especially one with larger tyres) much more responsive and drivable on the road, and certainly offers greater control and effectiveness off road so that you can overcome situations that might have otherwise required a locker.

[masterA]

Just get both lol

I would definatelly be getting the gears first if i were you....especially with the 1.3 carby as it will give you alot more control when doing harder terrain

When i put my 30 Bighorns on the standard 1.3 carby....just taking off on bitumen became alot more difficult....you can really notice that the clutch is working hard so running 31s or 33s would kill the clutch in no time

On a recent trip down to Dwellingup there was a red "Drova" (member on here) running only 29s with a 16B which outperformed alot of cars with his open diffs

Plus....without the locker it makes things alot more intersting/fun

[Highway-Star]

Brett wrote:

Wake up poeple,, he is only on 30's not 37 inch tyres. gearing is good but a was of time unless he gets more flex and gets bigger wheels because the 1st time he crawls into a big rut and gets crossed up he will be wishing he had a locker

Serious question mate. How good are your mathematical skills?
There are a couple of you who could do with answering this question actually...

[Brett]

my maths is to bad. why?

im speaking from experience, 30's is not a big wheel and it wont bog the car down that much. if it does he has other things to worrie about. i love gearing but only if he will stay on 30's then the 4.9's will be a good move ( after a locker ) if later on down the track he goes bigger he will want 6.5's not 4.9's

he has said he is new to it and he likes to hit up ruts,mud and rocks.

so a locker will be his best friend because instead of foot flat to the floor, big revs and wheels spinning in the air, coming down and breaking cvs, drive shafts driving.

he can, with a locker hit the same thing alot slower in 1st low are cruise up with a lot less speed than before. then when he lifts a wheel he can give his mates the finger and keep on going.

a sierra doesnt flex will with just a 2 inch lift so it will lift wheels.

[Ben_Sierra]

Brett wrote:

my maths is to bad. why?

im speaking from experience, 30's is not a big wheel and it wont bog the car down that much. if it does he has other things to worrie about. i love gearing but only if he will stay on 30's then the 4.9's will be a good move ( after a locker ) if later on down the track he goes bigger he will want 6.5's not 4.9's

he has said he is new to it and he likes to hit up ruts,mud and rocks.

so a locker will be his best friend because instead of foot flat to the floor, big revs and wheels spinning in the air, coming down and breaking cvs, drive shafts driving.

he can, with a locker hit the same thing alot slower in 1st low are cruise up with a lot less speed than before. then when he lifts a wheel he can give his mates the finger and keep on going.

a sierra doesnt flex will with just a 2 inch lift so it will lift wheels.

I like mud, rocks and ruts. I have 29s with gears and no lockers. I pick my lines well, and I rarely get stuck.

[Mubby]

gear reductions first...

[Highway-Star]

Brett wrote:

my maths is to bad. why?

Because I think that explains how you totally missed JrZook's point with the 37" tyres. In mathematics, limits of functions are often investigated to better understand how they behave. 37" 's of tyre is not really a limit, it is just an extreme example as he stated. I will try to explain better latter this evening when I am bored. However I just got my car going again and need to go for a drive!

[masterA]

drewmouli wrote:

masterA wrote:

Just get both lol

I would definatelly be getting the gears first if i were you....especially with the 1.3 carby as it will give you alot more control when doing harder terrain

When i put my 30 Bighorns on the standard 1.3 carby....just taking off on bitumen became alot more difficult....you can really notice that the clutch is working hard so running 31s or 33s would kill the clutch in no time

On a recent trip down to Dwellingup there was a red "Drova" (member on here) running only 29s with a 16B which outperformed alot of cars with his open diffs

Plus....without the locker it makes things alot more intersting/fun

AHAHA did you see his driving style though sounded mint as though

Nothing wrong with his driving style lol

[masterA]

Brett wrote:

if later on down the track he goes bigger he will want 6.5's not 4.9's

I wouldn't change the 4.9s.....id change my diff ratios instead

[vandle]

Mubby wrote:

gear reductions first...

x2

more control when you drive, less strain on clutch/transmission. better engine breaking going down hills.

more advantages with reduction gears first. lockers are a bonus

[Brett]

Highway-Star wrote:

Brett wrote:

my maths is to bad. why?

Because I think that explains how you totally missed JrZook's point with the 37" tyres. In mathematics, limits of functions are often investigated to better understand how they behave. 37" 's of tyre is not really a limit, it is just an extreme example as he stated. I will try to explain better latter this evening when I am bored. However I just got my car going again and need to go for a drive!

i understand what he said but its a small 30 inch tyre, having the wrong psi in them would bog it down as much as the size of the tyre

have a good wheel

[just_cruizin]

1. Find you local steep climb and drive it high range
2. Drive it in low range

Spot the difference

Would a locker make it easier in high range - no

For those that can't drive through a rut, choose a better line.

Sierra don't have the torque to drive larger tyres, 30's aren't big by tyre standards but they are greatter then 10% bigger then standard, that's comparable to a patrol on 35's

A 10% in tyre has a huge effect on torque to the point where you don't have enough to climb. You would need to increase power ie revs and then dump the clutch

Learn to drive unlocked and you'll out do any of these guys that just fit a locker at the first chance. And if you don't know how to get drive out of a Zook with one wheel in the air go buy a patrol and hand in your brain when you do.

[monley]

No else has mentioned either that a locker will get you places...but those places might end up with you been on your side or on your roof, but of you have gear's, you can learn to pick your line better i.e. keeping wheels on the ground, there keep on moving forwards. So when you do get a locker, you know how to pick your lines and are not always relying on your locker to get you to those places. I can vouch to how much more capable a car is with gear's compared to a car that doesn't not have gears in my own zook.

[MrRocky]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

I like mud, rocks and ruts. I have 29s with gears and no lockers. I pick my lines well, and I rarely get stuck.

bwahaha yeah in carparks

[3cyl]

Gears first for sure You can't really get the best out of a locked car until you learn to drive/read a track, and have lower gears. Besides, stinky on fire clutches ruin a good day, seen it many times.

[vandle]

just_cruizin wrote:

1. Find you local steep climb and drive it high range
2. Drive it in low range

Spot the difference

Would a locker make it easier in high range - no

For those that can't drive through a rut, choose a better line.

Sierra don't have the torque to drive larger tyres, 30's aren't big by tyre standards but they are greatter then 10% bigger then standard, that's comparable to a patrol on 35's

A 10% in tyre has a huge effect on torque to the point where you don't have enough to climb. You would need to increase power ie revs and then dump the clutch

Learn to drive unlocked and you'll out do any of these guys that just fit a locker at the first chance. And if you don't know how to get drive out of a Zook with one wheel in the air go buy a patrol and hand in your brain when you do.

couldn't have said it better

[ZookFan]

x2

[nato78]

In terms of bang for buck, lockers are definately cheaper, but if you have the cash to spend on gears why not consider this:

Get an auto locker like a Spartan

Supplement your gearing by getting a 1L transfer case and swapping it in

That way you will have a locker and lower gearing for less than the price of the reduction gears.

The other advantage of this is now you have a spare 1.3L transfer case waiting for you to strip down and rebuild once you have saved up some coin and bought your gears. Then you just swap transfer cases again and resell the 1L case.

I ran 31's on my Sierra for a while before I put my gears in, and it certainly wasn't undrivable.

[just_cruizin]

having driven a sierra with 31's with stock transfer, 1.0lt, rock lobster, series 3 (5.16's) and series 4 (6.5) the best and most usable was the series 3. Given they are not much difference from the series 2 (4.9) I would either of those options is best for 31's.

Lockers are great for the 2% or less time you need them. Gears are great 100% of the time you have 31's fitted. They suck with standard 26" tyres on.