[Daz7]

alien wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

There's miles more aftermarket support for a jimmy.

Steve.

like an 80mm spring lift? =P

Steve is correct about the aftermarket support for Jimnys, you blokes just have myopic vision with regard to vehicle buildups.

Look to Japan for what their doing with Jimny's and a massive aftermarket parts supply.

I also had a SJ80 and it was a pain with regard to its front suspension design. As discussed you just couldn't work with it without doing major reworking.

[Fatzook]

jonno_racing wrote:

why is this even a question? there are so many built SJ80's on this forum. proven that shit fits them. steve u have a hatred for them, maby you should get counseling? or maby think that your way isnt what every one else requires?

9 times out of 10, i'd rather punch myself in the dick than agree with Phil; but thats not the case here.

Bagging a coily for its faults compared to a leafy is no different than bagging a jimny for its fualts compared to a vitara. Despite the fact that coilys and leafys share the same moniker, they are for all intensive purposes, a different car. Because of this, you will face different issues when moddifying one.

As Phil listed earlier, there are quite a few mods that can be easily done to make the coily more capable. Yes that involves swapping in some leafy parts.....who cares. Leafys run vitara parts to make them better off-road....

[jonno_racing]

9 out of 10 hu Pete?

i got sick of reading this crap when i owned mine, time to move on guys.
in saying that my next sierra will be a leafy but thats not because of the fall backs of the sj80.

[Fatzook]

jonno_racing wrote:

9 out of 10 hu Pete?

i got sick of reading this crap when i owned mine, time to move on guys.
in saying that my next sierra will be a leafy but thats not because of the fall backs of the sj80.

You're right. Its probably 10/10.

[tanshi]

you do realise that people bag the coily because the coily owners get their knickers in a bunch when they do??
we bag vitaras for being hair dressers cars. doesnt mean the all of the drivers cut hair for a living.

its all about responses.

you dont see LJ owners crying when people say are cars are old and slow. we agree. but we love them any way.

FFS the world is fucked because people cant take a joke. lighten the fuck up.

[Fatzook]

tanshi wrote:

you do realise that people bag the coily because the coily owners get their knickers in a bunch when they do??
we bag vitaras for being hair dressers cars. doesnt mean the all of the drivers cut hair for a living.

its all about responses.

you dont see LJ owners crying when people say are cars are old and slow. we agree. but we love them any way.

FFS the world is fucked because people cant take a joke. lighten the fuck up.

There is a difference between calling a coily owner gay, and the grossly inacurate comment that 'nothing fits a coily'. Its not usually humour that drives that comment.... more ignorance and a lack of imagination.

[tanshi]

Granted, and you have the skills and imagination to see the weaknesses and fix them.

i got an LJ because nothing fits them, and i enjoy the challenge, i dont take it personally when people bag it. I just imagine flexing on their bonnet

but jonnos cry above because coilys get picked on, is exactly why coilys get picked on.

[coily96]

I think the sj80 wasnt intended to be a capable off road car, when suzuki built in 96 their market wasnt extreme off road but a comuter with the option to hit the beach or dirt track. They continued this with the jimny and the way the design market is i dont think we will see anything close to a leafy in the future. That will be complianced in Aus anyway.

[DomGat]

I've bought 3 coilys in the past 12 months. The most expensive was $3500.
I reckon they are the best shitboxes around. You can build one pretty capable for what you would spend on a jimny or vitara stock.
Also, I wouldn't blink if I dented one up or scratched the shit out of it.

[stockman]

My first Sierra was a coily, my last 11 have been leaf sprung.

[303zuke]

Fatzook wrote:

9 times out of 10, i'd rather punch myself in the dick than agree with Phil.

Pics, or it didn't happen!

[11_evl]

Ive been converted, I'm building a Coily.

[DomGat]

I will however admit that after buying 4" raised front springs to address the front suspension & after realising what needs to be done, I could hardly be fucked.
Oh well, no flex for me.
Anyone want some springs?

[fully sick coily]

YES I DO


and i think all zooks are awsome :armsup:

[31zook]

this thread is great

yep, Jim aftermarket parts are all sourced from the UK or Japan. Or you make up your own Chromo's and suspension links...

I'm guessing like a jimny if you re-linked the front end, and worked out a stronger front diff wouldn't people flock to them? My Jim is 100X more comfortable and better then any of my other sierra's.

[Gwagensteve]

That's exactly the point though. A jimmy starts out as 100X more comfortable than a sierra. A Coil sierra is marginally more comfortable than a leaf sierra, and once you refit a bunch of leaf parts it gets even loser to a leaf car in refinement.

Then throw away all the "unique" coil suspension parts, make your own unique axle parts and you have a car that's no less work than a leaf sierra or Jimny but owes you more heartache and $$ than either and offers no advantage to either.

I question whether people would flock to a car they have to spend $5K or more on to make it work as well as a leaf car with half that money in it off road.

Coilers are best kept mildly modded in my opinion, where they offer no advantage over a Jimny or vitara, only more hassles.

Steve.

[joel]

jonno_racing wrote:

why is this even a question? there are so many built SJ80's on this forum. proven that shit fits them. steve u have a hatred for everything thats not been done by you, not in your shed, not yours, not painted khaki, not in your circle of freinds, not "underground"enough, etc etc, maby you should get counseling? or maby think that your way isnt what every one else requires?

fixed

[christover1]

joel wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

why is this even a question? there are so many built SJ80's on this forum. proven that shit fits them. steve u have a hatred for everything thats not been done by you, not in your shed, not yours, not painted khaki, not in your circle of freinds, not "underground"enough, etc etc, maby you should get counseling? or maby think that your way isnt what every one else requires?

fixed

So all I gotta do is paint my Vit Khaki to improve it..cool

[31zook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

That's exactly the point though. A jimmy starts out as 100X more comfortable than a sierra. A Coil sierra is marginally more comfortable than a leaf sierra, and once you refit a bunch of leaf parts it gets even loser to a leaf car in refinement.

Then throw away all the "unique" coil suspension parts, make your own unique axle parts and you have a car that's no less work than a leaf sierra or Jimny but owes you more heartache and $$ than either and offers no advantage to either.

I question whether people would flock to a car they have to spend $5K or more on to make it work as well as a leaf car with half that money in it off road.

Coilers are best kept mildly modded in my opinion, where they offer no advantage over a Jimny or vitara, only more hassles.

Steve.

$800 for CVs, and I'm doing it so I'll prolly spend $400 on material for 3-linking the front end of a jimny. So $1200 or $1600 for completing both ends...

That's the same as a 1.6 swap. And it's a 99model, zero rust, comes with PS, injection, tin top and AC, and won't get you any attention from the police.

[Gwagensteve]

Exactly... so how is a coil sierra better?

Steve.

[jonno_racing]

less than half the price.

[Reubs]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Coilers are best kept mildly modded in my opinion, where they offer no advantage over a Jimny or vitara, only more hassles.

I guess people see different things as being the advantage. Yes my daily drive coily is only mildly modded but having something that can be driven every day and isn't a trailer queen is what I consider important.

Here is what I consider some advantages SJ80 has over Jimny:

Manual hubs standard, soft-top models have vinyl flooring and waterproof trim versus Jimny has carpet which is a rust magnet (I can still hose out my coily interior), carby (yes I think a carby can be an advantage as far as reliability is concerned), a lot of parts interchangeable with the common SJ70.

Here is what I consider some advantages SJ80 has over 1.6 Vitara:

G13 engine tends not to crack blocks and heads (I have 3 cracked G16s! - only good one is sold). Vitaras are rust magnets - sooo many places for moisture to accumulate and rust out the body. SJ80 will bust strut towers but once fixed then no more problems - Vitaras tend to crack strut towers or crack/break crossmembers and engine mount angles or rust in the chassis which can be harder to fix! SJ80 chassis is stronger than Vitara IMO. Vitara - braking while applying power could result in a busted alloy front diff!


I own a couple of vitaras and a couple of coilies. The coilies are my toys and daily drive. 2 of the vitaras are being parted and the 1 remaining one is so my partner and I have a comfortable car to do the shopping in or take friends to the movies etc! It might see the occasional dirt road or the beach!

[zooky08]

That's just general stuff. When it comes to doing mods to your drivetrain then I say coilys are more expensive then Jimny. Btw Jimny have vinyl too

[Gwagensteve]

Coil sierra motors are renowned for dropping piston skirts, and any car rusts with vigour if kept wet. I've not seen a cracked Vitara strut tower, and we've had some very heavily used vitaras in the club, but the well-maintanted and gently driven coil sierra I worked on cracked a tower. it also broke axle brackets.

If not not having to swap to manual hubs is what makes a coiler better than a jimmy then ok, that's great for you. If you find a carby more reliable than EFI than more power to you.

Personally, I'm no great fan of any of them, I'm just puzzled as to why anyone would choose a coil sierra as it has the worst suspension design and least aftermarket support of any of the three coil sprung options being discussed here. It also has the least appealing combination of parts - carby/manual/no power steer as per a leaf car, but then no removable windscreen frame/B pillar, and really terrible suspension that's far harder than a RUF to get right. If you're driving easy stuff that means a flop is out of the question, and the paucity of HD driveline parts isn't an issue, then I'm not sure what makes the coiler superior to a Jimny.

As for coil sierras being 1/2 the price of a jimmy, that's rubbish, and 30 seconds research proves that. That must mean coilers are free.

I'm aware that any people end up owning/modifying a car they ended up with through a position of ignorance, it just puzzles me why you'd choose to start with one. I suspect that very few people do choose to start with a coiler knowing their disadvatnages- they end up with one and work with what they've got.

Steve.

[jonno_racing]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Coil sierra motors are renowned for dropping piston skirts, and any car rusts with vigour if kept wet. I've not seen a cracked Vitara strut tower, and we've had some very heavily used vitaras in the club, but the well-maintanted and gently driven coil sierra I worked on cracked a tower. it also broke axle brackets.

I broke one axel bracket, that was with rear locker and 6.5's didnt beef up my second set and there still together.

i busted one shock tower out. welded a washer up there and BAM. what problem?

Gwagensteve wrote:

As for coil sierras being 1/2 the price of a jimmy, that's rubbish, and 30 seconds research proves that. That must mean coilers are free.

average jimny is 6-20k
average stock coiler 2-6k

steve i love what you build! your rigs are awesome to say the least. but your hate of coilers is amazing.

imo a coiler is a good rig. not perfect but will do the job just fine for the daily driver and weekend worrier rig

[JrZook]

Ay Jonno as the coilers have there fair share of design issues what are the issues the leafies have? Seems like the coiler design issues need to be fixed via a grinder and a welder which the average wheeler does not seem to have, where as leafy issues can be solved by heading down to a shop and buying a bolt in replacement part.

[jonno_racing]

are you telling me you dont know a mate with a welder??
im sure 95% of this forum do or own one.
atleast with fixing anything with a sj80 its a very cheep fix.
leafys do have there faults. as do all cars on the road.

i beleve all in all the better ride of the sj80 is worth the small amount of work.

[Gwagensteve]

JrZook wrote:

Ay Jonno as the coilers have there fair share of design issues what are the issues the leafies have? Seems like the coiler design issues need to be fixed via a grinder and a welder which the average wheeler does not seem to have, where as leafy issues can be solved by heading down to a shop and buying a bolt in replacement part.

And that's almost exactly it, except it's a little but more complicated than that. Even ruf, whilst fabrication heavy to do properly and a mod which requires a welder and grinder, is a well trodden path and guaranteed excellent results if it's done the way that many others have done it.

However, re-engineering the retarded coil sierra front suspension design is a huge job. Not only are lots of parts fabrication critical (like radius arms) there are lots to "traps" where a miscalculation, for example, could result in a very poor result requiring rework. Whilst there's been some nice coilers put together, I have only seen one where it looked like the gain in performance might have justified the effort.

Rusho's TSOR Whore wagon:



that's had all the coiler-specific problems worked out of the suspension, but I reckon that project would have been so close to the total labour of coiling a leaf car that in time and $$$ it's honestly irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. How many people "with a welder and a grinder" would consider this much fabrication?

Sure, any one with a welder and a grinder can weld up broken brackets, and anyone with a welder and a grinder can knock up a RUF, but very, very few people can build to the standard of Fatzook and correct the coiler problems.

The only reason I'm continuing to bang on in this thread is in the hope that when noobs are looking for a suzuki, they might stumble on this thread and steer clear of a coiler, or at least think very carefully before they buy one. I've met far too many people who blindly assumed that a coil sierra must be heaps better than a leaf one because it has coils. It's not the case.

At heart, I'm not a suzuki enthusiast. I have no interest in inherently defending suzukis. I own a suzuki because it's the best car to do the job I need. If there was a better candidate, I'd own it. I'm not going to sing the praises of a coiler just because it exists. It was a bad idea and a very flawed design. It's unloved by the aftermaket, mostly because It wasn't on sale for long enough, which is a testament to how bad an idea it was.

jonno, I'm sure you loved your coiler, but that doesn't make them a good choice for a prospective buyer.

Steve.

[jonno_racing]

Steve i think your missing my point.
that work is not NEEDED. we dont all drive stupidly hard stuff like you do.
my old coiler was easily capable of keeping up with big dattos and the like and it did not "require" any of this work.

[Rusho]

Gwagensteve wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Ay Jonno as the coilers have there fair share of design issues what are the issues the leafies have? Seems like the coiler design issues need to be fixed via a grinder and a welder which the average wheeler does not seem to have, where as leafy issues can be solved by heading down to a shop and buying a bolt in replacement part.

And that's almost exactly it, except it's a little but more complicated than that. Even ruf, whilst fabrication heavy to do properly and a mod which requires a welder and grinder, is a well trodden path and guaranteed excellent results if it's done the way that many others have done it.

However, re-engineering the retarded coil sierra front suspension design is a huge job. Not only are lots of parts fabrication critical (like radius arms) there are lots to "traps" where a miscalculation, for example, could result in a very poor result requiring rework. Whilst there's been some nice coilers put together, I have only seen one where it looked like the gain in performance might have justified the effort.

Rusho's TSOR Whore wagon:



that's had all the coiler-specific problems worked out of the suspension, but I reckon that project would have been so close to the total labour of coiling a leaf car that in time and $$$ it's honestly irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. How many people "with a welder and a grinder" would consider this much fabrication?

Sure, any one with a welder and a grinder can weld up broken brackets, and anyone with a welder and a grinder can knock up a RUF, but very, very few people can build to the standard of Fatzook and correct the coiler problems.

The only reason I'm continuing to bang on in this thread is in the hope that when noobs are looking for a suzuki, they might stumble on this thread and steer clear of a coiler, or at least think very carefully before they buy one. I've met far too many people who blindly assumed that a coil sierra must be heaps better than a leaf one because it has coils. It's not the case.

At heart, I'm not a suzuki enthusiast. I have no interest in inherently defending suzukis. I own a suzuki because it's the best car to do the job I need. If there was a better candidate, I'd own it. I'm not going to sing the praises of a coiler just because it exists. It was a bad idea and a very flawed design. It's unloved by the aftermaket, mostly because It wasn't on sale for long enough, which is a testament to how bad an idea it was.

jonno, I'm sure you loved your coiler, but that doesn't make them a good choice for a prospective buyer.

Steve.

I agree Steve. It was a massive under taking. One I definately would not have undertaken by myself. The clearances to shoe horn that WT diff and steering components in there and et the suspension to cycle was pretty tight. That being said, I wanted to do it to have a unique rig. Pretty sure that Mr.Fat has done just that, with the help of his parts cutting grinder bitch!!

My coily did pretty well unlocked with 30's before all this. All they need is a better designed strut/spring combination...it's the age old mystery