[llama_au]

On the subject of LSDs, the torsen LSD I had in my BRZ was my favourite LSD of all. Maybe because it was awesome for drifting lol

Not sure it'd be any good in an offroad 4x4 though, if it lifted a wheel (going sideways into a driveway) the thing could literally become beached and stop moving.

[Gwagensteve]

Torsen LSD’s require heavy left foot braking to work. Standard debogging procedure ion the US army for HMMWV’s is to literally stand on both pedals.

The problem with traction control is that it’s cancelled by braking, so if you left foot brake to control speed or torque at the wheels (the best thing about an auto) the TC turns off- the opposite of how an LSD normally works.

[gone.west]

Hi Everyone
I might be able to answer some of the questions regarding both 4xFourART Smart Lock LSDs and the Tre 4x4 lockers.

4xFourART Smart Lock LSD
They a different to all other designs. Basic terms, They are a shim Pack ( not clutch Pack) LSD. So with Zero load applied they are almost an open centre, as you apply throttle the TQ loads up the shim pack Reducing slip between the steel shims. So if you can apply enough torque they will almost completely lock. They don't give as much traction as a full Locker but have non of the on road disadvantages ( when Installed in the rear). as they are not an ON or Off locker, they are also very predictable on road (even when wet).

TRE airlockers
Yes chines made. Made to the old ARB design. There is a Local Supplier (OZ), have a 5 year manufactures warranty (same as ARB). They are machined internal gears ( not like the original Chinese HF lockers that ARB use in there videos when they could brake them). The air fittings are not as high quality as the ARB supplied ones (but easy to get locally).

Both the 4xFourART LSD and the TRE4x4 airlockers are available for front and rear for the full vitara range from SE Vitara through to an including the JB/JT NGV.

Fitment limitation:
4xFOURART LSD for the rear of the SE, SV and SQ is only available for the 12 bolt ring gear
Both the LSD and Air locker in the front of a SQ requires: Manuel Locking hubs and a 26spline LHS long stubby axle from a SE Vitara. (8mm shorter than the SQ one)

I have a 4xFOURART LSD in the rear of my Vitara and it has made a massive difference / improvement both on and off road. for extreme / Pure offroad a full locker would be better but as i also daily including a lot of gravel roads, the on road advantages outweigh the extreme 4x4ing short falls. Im currently have an open front diff but will be install either an Airlocks or E-locker in the front in the future ( Once i build a good seed of hybrid front shafts.

Yes I run Zook Offroad Australia

[gone.west]

https://www.facebook.com/ZookOffroadAust/videos/478498342830158/?t=1

Video is 2WD ( hubs unlocked) in low Range

[technobedlam]

gone.west wrote:

Hi Everyone
I might be able to answer some of the questions regarding both 4xFourART Smart Lock LSDs and the Tre 4x4 lockers.

4xFourART Smart Lock LSD
They a different to all other designs. Basic terms, They are a shim Pack ( not clutch Pack) LSD. So with Zero load applied they are almost an open centre, as you apply throttle the TQ loads up the shim pack Reducing slip between the steel shims. So if you can apply enough torque they will almost completely lock. They don't give as much traction as a full Locker but have non of the on road disadvantages ( when Installed in the rear). as they are not an ON or Off locker, they are also very predictable on road (even when wet).

See, I didn't understand them. Thanks for that.

What I did know for sure is they work really well

[vet 180]

gone.west wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/ZookOffroadAust/videos/478498342830158/?t=1

Video is 2WD ( hubs unlocked) in low Range

Damn that is a well set up vitara!

[Joe]

vet 180 wrote:

gone.west wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/ZookOffroadAust/videos/478498342830158/?t=1

Video is 2WD ( hubs unlocked) in low Range

Damn that is a well set up vitara!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50631

[Gwagensteve]

technobedlam wrote:

See, I didn't understand them. Thanks for that.

What I did know for sure is they work really well

I still don’t if it’s design is something unique as implied by the manufacturer. To me it just sounds like a regular aftermarket LSD with some confusingly worded marketing.
Between the marketing guff and gone.west, I think I can determine:

I think it’s a regular shimmed clutch LSD, albeit a very good one.
It doesn’t lock, so it’s an LSD, not a locker.
It does effect road handling (positive or negative effect isn’t important. The manufacturers page said it was undetectable which would be miraculous for a tight LSD) and a user has confirmed it is predictable on road, implying it has an effect on road.

[gone.west]

Gwagensteve

I have tech drawings of the internals.
It is definitely NOT a shimmed up clutch pack LSD. They use a wet clutch and friction material what slips once the friction force is overcome. ( The 4xFourART one does not)

Undetectable is referring to the a comparison to Mechanical Lockers. ( they click and clunk, chirp tires in a carpark and are very obvious when they suddenly engage and dis-engage) they are on or off nothing in-between. They always want to slide in corners, unless coasting) If your use to driving a rear locker vehicle you will not notice that the LSD is there at all.. If you use to driving an open centred rear diff with lots of flex and soft springs you really notice the difference ( ability to apply power to the weight wheel.)

Road handling is very important, and yes it has an effect on road.

You have to stop just thinking about it as just a "Tight Clutch Pack LSD". They are always tight and then start to slip if friction force is over come. These will slip more by simply reducing the TQ driving them. Or add Tq and they will tighten up.

I also have a patrol with a tightly shimmed rear LSD and they are very different in how they feel Driving.

[technobedlam]

Gwagensteve wrote:

technobedlam wrote:

See, I didn't understand them. Thanks for that.

What I did know for sure is they work really well

I still don’t if it’s design is something unique as implied by the manufacturer. To me it just sounds like a regular aftermarket LSD with some confusingly worded marketing.
Between the marketing guff and gone.west, I think I can determine:

I think it’s a regular shimmed clutch LSD, albeit a very good one.
It doesn’t lock, so it’s an LSD, not a locker.
It does effect road handling (positive or negative effect isn’t important. The manufacturers page said it was undetectable which would be miraculous for a tight LSD) and a user has confirmed it is predictable on road, implying it has an effect on road.

So 4xFourArt made an LSD that works remarkably well as a 'locker' and it's on-road manners are superb, but detectable.

You get to be correct and I get great off-road traction and on-road handling. I also learned something. All win.