[Gwagensteve]

Yes, in my industry EDM is used to create notches of precise width and depth for calibration purposes. I’ve also seen EDM used to turn a put an internal hex on a bolt head. It’s very impressive.

[Mike harris]

I was blown away by the finish, really pleased

Amazing the technology that's out there, I took it to the company and it wasn't even very expensive to have done !

[vet 180]

Mike harris wrote:

Hello mate,

The splines he same with 0.001 mm tolerance I think that's what the email said lots of zeros then a 1 ! Hahaha

Yeh exactly the same as the Dana spline, but slightly tighter to account for any wear in the 100k diff I gave them to shadow graph

Il try and film the fitment and add a little video my mates just had Dana 60 shafts made fit a patrol diff, so we had them done at the same time

Next up box them up and send them to the shaft shop get them made up

The patrol/Dana 60 combo sounds interesting..... any more details on that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike harris]

Same idea as mine, so patrol side gear machined out to Dana 60 spline specification, much bigger isn't it, then custom shafts

[vet 180]

Mike harris wrote:

Same idea as mine, so patrol side gear machined out to Dana 60 spline specification, much bigger isn't it, then custom shafts

How much meat is left on the patrol side gears? Would interesting to see custom shafts and patrol shafts side by side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike harris]

I'm not sure I can get info, although nissan axles are for girls only suzuki axles are for winners !

Can be done using Dana 60 arb side gear in the patrol diff, but that's common knowledge I guess

[Mike harris]

Shafts are nealry done

27 spline bad boys !

[Gwagensteve]

They look nicely made.

[Mike harris]

Thankyou, the mans name is Mark he's from up in West Yorkshire which is in the north of England.

He's recently machined some 300m patrol shafts for a U.K. Car that competed in king of the hammers, which is pretty cool !

I think they'll still take a while with current goings on, heat treating still to be done ect

Need to have spindles bored out as well

I hope it's worth it !

I'm going to change my gear ratio in the diffs, so it's not so low, do you guys recon that would also help with shafts breakage? Currently them 5.38 diffs from low range, but I have a load of jap 3.9 diffs I'm thinking of going to. Only problem is in England the common diff is the 3.7 samurai, so if I break it there's not many 413.

Mike

[ZUZUKI]

Lots of people here run Vitara ratios - this opens up a few options between 3.9 & the aftermarket 5.38:1 you are currently running.
Different ratios in different markets, but if you search on here, you will find a guide to what we got - much of which should be the same as what the UK cars run.

Off the top of my head:
4.3:1 GV manual
4.625:1 Vitara SWB - I have these in my 1985 LWB N/T but converted to W/T axles
4.875:1 GV auto
5.12:1 most Vitara EFI - these are run by lots of Sierra owners - but would be too close to what you currently have.

Only front diff gears from a Vitara will fit into a otherwise standard SJ413 Sierra, but as Gwagon is doing, there are some people starting to run Vitara rears with significant modification in the rear of Sierras.

Rgs, Michael

[Mike harris]

I have a lot of the different ratios, I'm just trying to work out what will work well


I have 38 inch tyres and 6.5 box, I only ever need to use low box,

At the moment it's too low, I'm worried 3.9 will then be too high

All I can do is try and see what it's like, you guys recon they'll be less torque so less strain on shafts?

Mike

[ZUZUKI]

Yes, less overall reduction will mean less torque applied which in turn should make the shafts have an easier life.
But less reduction means more wheel speed for the same RPM - speed is also a factor affecting shaft life, so there can be a bit of 'canceling out' effect of lifting overall reduction.
Rgs, Michael

[Mike harris]

I think where it's so low it should be ok, I had a samurai rear diff in it whilst it was 4 linked on the back

Only drove it in 2 low and i really likes the ratio, that was 3.7 so I think 3.9 will be slightly lower hoping it will be ideal

I know it will completely ruin high range which is usable on the 5.38 diff, but

[Gwagensteve]

Im a bit confused, are you dropping from 5.38 to 3.9 because of the added strength or to improve your gearing? You've subsequently said you drive everything pretty much at idle, what gear is that in in the gearbox? You're gong to raising your gearing 30%, the effect is going to be like going from 1st low to 2rd low for the same engine speed i.e you're loosing the gear you idle in.

for an experiment, drive the car around without ever using 1st low. If it's fine, go with the 3.7/3.9 diffs.

The difference between 3.7 and 3.9 is ~5%. it's basically going to be undetectable. Use the diff gears that are most plentiful. (and they'd be the strongest.)

So you're reducing torque at the wheels by about 30%. if you have enough engine to manage that then that's OK and might help your shafts, but as Michael points out, you're now turning the wheels 30% faster for the same engine speed. That mitigates against "idling everything" and introduces other problems. Also, taller axle gears push more load at the transfer case - you're just moving the load elsewhere.

[Mike harris]

Morning man, yeh it's geared way to low, I had a 3.7 rear diff in it and drove it around the yard, was ideal I thought. Most of the samurai 3.7 diffs here are Spanish and a bit crap, so the Japanese made 3.9 I think is a better option.

2nd and third quite often, hardly ever used first as it's just way to low, it can be handy for driving a wheel up trees, or vertical banks etc, but even then when you need even a slight elimimant of acceleration it just doesn't happen, just revs !!

Just pulled apart a 5.38 diff and there's a chunk missing from the pinion, so il give this ago and its no good il get another 5.38 and leave it how it is.

I've got 5.125 diffs as well, but I previously ran them. Few years back and killed a lot of them.

Problem is I've been using it now for so many years I've become used to how It drives with super low gearing, where the winches do 90% of the work I just want to make the car more long lasting, just broken an rcv "ultimate" front shaft for the second time now as well.

I think to be honest if this next avenue with the 27 spline shafts turns out to be toilet il have to change axles and I really don't want to do it.

Hope everyone's ok, and families safe during this shit time in the world

[Mike harris]

So the shaft is only very slightly bigger than the spindle bore, and I've had the hub spline only made long enough to poke out the end of the spindle, so I hoping where the splines are bigger than the main diameter of the shaft I can just remove minimal material from the spindle, 10 inch offset wheels I can imagine put a lot of force on them with 38.5 inch mud treps !

[Mike harris]

Shafts are a week away from being done with heat treaters.

Nordlock washers here for drive flanges

Diff stripped and ready for 27 spline side gears when they return

Shame all the front axle was smashed, that's the next problem.

[Mike harris]

Heat treated and ready for collection

27 spline 29.5mm

[Gwagensteve]

No provision for axle seals or are they at the far end and I can’t see them

[Mike harris]

No doesn't have them man, rob Storr fully float kit is literally shafts and an adaptor ring that's like 30mm thick

He's been doing them since 2001, but didn't make many to be honest

The newer style ones I've seen that have them is much better idea and design for sure

We remove and clean all the wheel bearings in between events, and they get washed with oil, nothing to stop it is there.

[Mike harris]

All done, in the workshop ready to fit.

End one is old one to see the difference in thickness

[Mike harris]

So good news I only had to ream out less than 1mm out of the spindle which I was well pleased with, did it by hand with a reamer which didn't take long.

Mocked up in the vice, got nordlock washers to try when fitting to the car.

Next up build side gears into the diff and ream the other spindle.

[Gwagensteve]

Interesting. How much clearance do you have between the spindle and axleshaft?

[Mike harris]

Morning mate. Hope your well, 1.05mm on my digital vernier gauge, should be alright I think.

I think il weld the little caps on the drive flanges make sure they're secure once I know I'm happy with the fit.

[Mike harris]

All bolted up ready to go

Pic of the side gears in the diff

Went together well I was pleased

Battered old thing !

[Gwagensteve]

Hi Mike, any update on the durability of this combination?

[Mike harris]

Morning man,

Yeh all good no breakages, took it apart to check for wear and clearance are all ok under load, all seems fine.

Broken another rcv ultimate front shaft, so now might do similar mod with the front

I do think the weak link will now be the side gear in the diff, but there not much money to replace and have machined, I guess will damage the shaft, but we will have to wait and see how it holds up under further use, we using it next year in Portugal hopefully, so be tested at its limit there I’d say.

Next up try and make it look a bit smarter, things so battered !

Hope everyone’s been ok through the pandemic !

[Mike harris]

Attachment:

FFD2540C-85EA-4679-96FD-70397F390535.jpeg

Poor thing !

[Mike harris]

So just a quick thanks for the Nord lock washer shout, as I did try this before as I said and had no luck with them with arp studs, but with the cap head bolts haven’t had one come undone !

Hope everyone’s keeping well !

[Stevemeister]

Where are you going to run it in Portugal? CPT4x4, King of Portugal?
If you are only wheeling it in portugal, everything I'm going to say next doesn't apply and your rig will do an amazing job.

To go racing, I would sell all that samurai gear and put stronger axles under it.
Heck, It would be safer to replace the entire drivetrain with Patrol/Toy/G parts.

Portugal is not like the competitions in Belgium or Poland, where it's only mud/clay (Rainforest style) in tight trails.
The portuguese competition has all kinds of terrain, from mud to urban tracks, and the track is super wide.
Your rig must have low enough gearing to crawl rocks, and enough power to climb sand dunes.

You would be running in the PROTO class, up to 38.5" tyres.
In some races you would be merged with super proto (40" tyres, and unlimited in some races).
I've seen people run 46" tyres in the merged races, it's not fun for the guys on 38.5s.
Proto class has rigs running tube chassis, v8s or m57 bmw diesels, unimog axles, coilovers and way over 90º of aproach/departure angle.

The advantage of samurai axles is the ground clearance, but they are running portals, soo you would get stuck anyway.

This is the kind of rig that will be in your class.
Unimog diffs
G Wagen V8, auto and T case.
Hydro steer.
37" treps (back then you could only run a 37).
This will do 80-100kph between obstacles.



Even if you lower it down a notch and run 37" treps, you will be running against this.
Air shocks and Coilovers, upgraded GQ/GU patrol diffs, Diesel engine making over 150hp....

Yes, that's the diff smashing the concrete barrier to pieces.
A samurai axle housing can't handle that kind of beating.

This thing will crawl up stuff just as easy as yours, but it has the drivetrain strenght to handle a full send in 2nd or 3rd gear.



If you lower it even more, to 35" tyres, you will still be up against this.

BMW m57 engine, probably making more than 400hp, upgraded GU diffs, etc.
People buy GQ/Y60 GR Patrols thinking their tuned rd28 will run like this.

The track is also a lot easier, with bypasses on every hard obstacle, soo it's more of a sprint race.

https://fb.watch/23XrLTzcxG/