[Red89]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Just not everywhere.

Critta was a "non comp" rock crawler that ended up being turned into a "comp" rock crawler because driving a buggy on recreational tracks isn't much fun.

In any case, like everything, it's all relative. pure, recreational rock driving doesn't need 40's or H260 diffs. Comp driving might, but it all depends on how the tracks are setup and the rules, which are often written around big cars, which advantage big tyres/heavy cars. Recreational driving isn't like that, so a lighter car that's not driven on the clock will do better.

Steve.

How much actual purely rock crawling have you done Steve, in particular on private property where you dont have a destination to get to ? All of your club pics you have posted have been on mostly heavily rutted trails the only one that could be considered rock crawling would be the one you keep posting of a black hard top climbing a sloping rock face. When we go wheeling on private property we look for the hardest possible outcrops and keep attempting to drive them until someone works out a way over them, major rock packing and winching are for recovery only. Sure there are tracks around these outcrops but the whole point of these trips is to test the driver and navi's skills combined with the vehicles capabilities. We dont go out to destroy our cars or deliberately roll them but if the car breaks and cant be repaired it is simply towed back to camp and stuck on the trailer there is no need to worry about how we are going to get to the next campsite or how we are going to drive it home. To us this is what we consider to be recreational rock crawling.

I can post a heap of pics like this one but in the pic below it is a 5-6 foot step and you would be hard pressed getting any Sierra on 33's to 35's up it, trust me we have tried. You need around 100" WB and belly clearance at least otherwise you will either end up on your back or sitting on your chassis rails.



No I wouldnt go Trol or Dana diffs, as Lux ones are more then capable of handling 40" stickies and high traction but some people need to reliably run 37's or bigger which cant be done yet on Sierra diffs.

[starky]

Ready for the Hate mail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm going to run rover diff's....


Ducking behind keyboard for cover

[SierraDan]

Theres was a Sierra at Toperi that was apparently engineered on coils, rover diffs 35's and a comp cut/tube rear end. Didnt have any mechanical issues to my knowledge throughout the comp.

But yeah, you're special.. haha

[starky]

kind of what i am going for starting my build next year rover diff'e coils h27a and auto 35's. didn't know anyone had run rover axles b4

sorry for the hijack

[3cyl]

Many of us Rover lovers don't even use Rover diffs. The 3.5 ones break easy enough, don't even think about the 4.7s (spiral bevel gears, not hypoid).
Some actually put Hilux centres in Rover housings. Ends up with a strong housing with decent disc brakes and a good diff centre with locker and ratio options.

[SierraDan]

i have heard of people bolting toy gear into rover housings..

[tanshi]

I was thinking they would be a nice thing to have in the corner of the shed for the future actually. not for this encarnation of the build.

[3cyl]

Mmmm... nice to have the shed space, if I had that manner of shed space I'd have a spare LJ tub.

[tanshi]

I have two spare LJ tubs hehe

[3cyl]

tanshi wrote:

I have two spare LJ tubs hehe

Sounds like bragging to me...

[KEENSY85]

3cyl wrote:

tanshi wrote:

I have two spare LJ tubs hehe

Sounds like bragging to me...

Bastard

[oozuk]

Tanshi, On the subject of axles I'm doing the same thing as you, I've got a vitara 12 bolt rear axle, ordered a RD209 airlocker for it, I've knocked the ends off it and getting ready to cut it to the correct width.

I'm wanting to get some full floating axles made from 300M material once i know the measurements required, I'm struggling to find a supplier in australia (unless you know one) that can supply the material, machine it and heat treat it. I haven't been able to find a supplier that can do all this in aus.

I stumbled across this company in the States
http://www.performancecryogenics.com/index.html
His name is Dean, he has been making making suzuki axles for other people in the states and knew what i wanted
He was willing to supply a 26spl full floating rear axle out of 300M heat treated and cryo'ed and was willing to ship to Australia.
The price i got was really good (exc freight) so now i just need to work out measurements

[tanshi]

I'd be interested to hear about the price you were quoted Steve. I have a pair I got cut out of 4340 to suit wide track axles a while back that will give us an idea on measurements. I'm also wheeling with the guy who made our hytuff axles this weekend so I'll ask him about 300M. My rear shafts will be 28 spline and bigger diameter shaft but length s I guess will be the same

[oozuk]

tanshi wrote:

I'd be interested to hear about the price you were quoted Steve. I have a pair I got cut out of 4340 to suit wide track axles a while back that will give us an idea on measurements. I'm also wheeling with the guy who made our hytuff axles this weekend so I'll ask him about 300M. My rear shafts will be 28 spline and bigger diameter shaft but length s I guess will be the same

I'm interested in how your going 28 spline and a larger axle, I'll talk to you more about that in dept next week.

I was quoted about $500 US for two 300M full floater axles, He had just done a run of them and had some material left over

[tanshi]

thats not too bad. ours hytuff ones were a fair bit cheeper than that but 300M is a bit more expensive material.

[oozuk]

if it's stronger than it's worth it

[tanshi]

for sure it is, would be nice to get if we could get the material here though.

on a slight side note does anyone have an opinion on whether mild steel will be strong enough for use adapting axle housing ends to a different set of spindles?
IM also hoping some one can do some cheep cash machining for me for these adapters. any one???

[joeblow]

Send me a drawing and/or images.

[tanshi]

not sure how to draw it or even really explain it well.

i have some CJ5 hubs and stub axles. the step on the back where it needs to sit in the adapter is around 83mm (yes i know i would need more accurate measurment) it will bolt up to a standard vitara axle tube end with the rib that holds the brake backing plate sitting in a recess in the other side of the plate. its 1-2 mm different in size.

so say a hole all the way through a 10mm plate one side which is ~83mm through to half way, the other ~81mm.

whole plate around 120mm x 180mm x 10mm

[tanshi]

i guess the bit i need done would look a bit like this

[oozuk]

tanshi wrote:

for sure it is, would be nice to get if we could get the material here though.

on a slight side note does anyone have an opinion on whether mild steel will be strong enough for use adapting axle housing ends to a different set of spindles?
IM also hoping some one can do some cheep cash machining for me for these adapters. any one???

I talked to fatzook about doing this out of 16mm plate laser cut to be slipped over the bare vit diff tube ends and welded on, then allow the sierra front stubs to bolt to that

Joeblow, are you able to make the axles out of 300M ? is that what your were referring to or were your referring to the mounting plates ?

[tanshi]

Interesting. mine would obviously be a little different to fit the CJ jeep hubs im using.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not picking an argument at all Red - your car is awesome and you obviously have access to lots of private property where it can be used, but my point was this:

Red89 wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

because driving a buggy on recreational tracks isn't much fun.

In any case, like everything, it's all relative. pure, recreational rock driving doesn't need 40's or H260 diffs. Comp driving might, but it all depends on how the tracks are setup and the rules, which are often written around big cars, which advantage big tyres/heavy cars. Recreational driving isn't like that, so a lighter car that's not driven on the clock will do better.

Steve.

How much actual purely rock crawling have you done Steve, in particular on private property where you dont have a destination to get to

It's entirely possible to have the same amount of fun with a 31" tyre as a 35" tyre, or maybe even a 40" tyre. Driving a car to the limit of its ability is the point. There's always a bigger ledge or a steeper climb. You've drawn the line at your setup, which is likely similar to where we are - for us, a 35 is as large as we can feasibly run with our setup and terrain. We don't need 35's, you don't need 40's - you like to run them because it's the largest feasible, functional sticky tyre available (I'm guessing that's your reason?) and it looks to be similar to what a bunch of your crew are running, so it's a "leveller"

However, if you're building your car to drive a particular obstacle, that's great, but that's not really "need" - there's lots of different ways to drive the same obstacle. I've been being outdriven by cars with smaller tyres for long enough to be pretty philosophical about it.

Comp use effectively mandates a tyre size. Recreational use doesn't.

Steve.

[kenn]

Joeblow, are you able to make the axles out of 300M ? is that what your were referring to or were your referring to the mounting plates ?

I'm sure that Mr Joe could make both, if he gets the time to is a different thing all together.



Comp use effectively mandates a tyre size. Recreational use doesn't.

Steve , when you say recreational use do you mean public land? Because I think you'll find that ADR's mandate a tyre size and the Police will enforce it, you may want to clarify that.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not making the distinction Kenn. It's quite possible to build a recreational 4WD that doesn't have to comply with any ADR's, It's also quite possible to engineer a road legal 4WD on 40" tyres or bigger. However, whilst the process of building such a vehicle might be great fun, it might not really be all that much fun to drive on recreational tracks or in a non-comp setting.

Steve.

[pezz]

Gwagensteve wrote:

whilst the process of building such a vehicle might be great fun, it might not really be all that much fun to drive on recreational tracks or in a non-comp setting.

Steve.

Depends where you live, there are heaps of tracks here to enjoy for the hardcore "comp" rigs.... hence the swing to social buggy builds in the region

[Gwagensteve]

I assume they're on private property?

I say this because rocking a buggy down here isn't an option - we're on public roads, even if they are hard tracks. That's the leveller down here.

Steve.

[pezz]

Mostly, but there are still a few guys running truggys/winch utes in the 37 to 40" range on some public trails
they mostly run 35's for general duties/engineering and swap out to big stickys for the hard trips

We are blessed with a great range of trails/areas here...... but we dont really have much in the way of victorian mud, our mud is a bit more tame....

I think vic will eat me alive till i learn the style of driving, im to used to high traction surfaces

[SierraDan]

40's definitely show their colours on natural terrain.

[SierraDan]

hillbilly wrote:

people on here hate toyota parts........i hadnt noticed (suzuki chromo's are strong......but longfields in a toyota diff are stronger) we run longfields in a bundy front on 37s with a 5 ltr powering it......your grandkids will still be driving on them on 35s

Horses for courses.

37's, V6, toy diffs and hot grippy rock.







For me Toy diffs means cheap strong setup, but also heavy, expensive parts and then i can run bigger tyres, which means more wheelbase which means less body which means its not the car its meant to be.

A bomb proof Suzuki based setup keeps it simple, reliable, cheap in the long run and not moving away from what a road based Suzuki can do.